Everything Civil War!

[James_tiberous]

Hi all,

I always read somethings from a books that sound so interesting but i am not sure I want to just start a topic on it. So I am starting this thread so that anyone can post little tidbits of something that was simply interesting. If its successful, great, if not, no big deal. My first thing is from Chancellorsville by Stephen Sears, pg 45: It about an execution and a quote from a South Carolina surgeon:

"A man was shot near our regiment last Sunday for desertion. It was a very solemn scene. The condemned man was seated on his coffin with his hands tied across his breast. A file of twelve soldiers was brought up to within six feet of him, and at the command a volley was fired right into his breast. He was hit by but one ball, because eleven of the guns were loaded with powder only. This was done so that no man can be certain that he killed him...these severe punishments seem necessary to preserve discipline."

One of the more horrifying parts of the war, the armies killing their own.



Feel free to comment on this post of post your own quotes for discussion. Any topic!

 

[E_just_E]

Hi all,

I always read somethings from a books that sound so interesting but i am not sure I want to just start a topic on it. So I am starting this thread so that anyone can post little tidbits of something that was simply interesting. If its successful, great, if not, no big deal. My first thing is from Chancellorsville by Stephen Sears, pg 45: It about an execution and a quote from a South Carolina surgeon:

"A man was shot near our regiment last Sunday for desertion. It was a very solemn scene. The condemned man was seated on his coffin with his hands tied across his breast. A file of twelve soldiers was brought up to within six feet of him, and at the command a volley was fired right into his breast. He was hit by but one ball, because eleven of the guns were loaded with powder only. This was done so that no man can be certain that he killed him...these severe punishments seem necessary to preserve discipline."

One of the more horrifying parts of the war, the armies killing their own.



Feel free to comment on this post of post your own quotes for discussion. Any topic!

That quote: Spencer G. Welch, surgeon of the 13th SC in a letter to his wife.

That's a great book. The 2 pages following that quote are great in describing Jackson's hypocrisy and passive aggressiveness, as well

 

[bdtex]

Hi all,

I always read somethings from a books that sound so interesting but i am not sure I want to just start a topic on it. So I am starting this thread so that anyone can post little tidbits of something that was simply interesting. If its successful, great, if not, no big deal. My first thing is from Chancellorsville by Stephen Sears, pg 45: It about an execution and a quote from a South Carolina surgeon:

"A man was shot near our regiment last Sunday for desertion. It was a very solemn scene. The condemned man was seated on his coffin with his hands tied across his breast. A file of twelve soldiers was brought up to within six feet of him, and at the command a volley was fired right into his breast. He was hit by but one ball, because eleven of the guns were loaded with powder only. This was done so that no man can be certain that he killed him...these severe punishments seem necessary to preserve discipline."

One of the more horrifying parts of the war, the armies killing their own.



Feel free to comment on this post of post your own quotes for discussion. Any topic!

I've read accounts of deserter executions in a coupla Confederate soldier memoirs. It had the desired effect on them.

 

[James B White]

I'd worry that that one guy with the bullet would miss or hit a nonfatal area or otherwise be the Jonah of the squad. The idea is good, of course, similar to the idea of stoning--you can never say which person threw the fatal stone.

 

[James_tiberous]

I'd worry that that one guy with the bullet would miss or hit a nonfatal area or otherwise be the Jonah of the squad. The idea is good, of course, similar to the idea of stoning--you can never say which person threw the fatal stone.

If I was going to be shot I'd want at least three or four bullets used, just to make sure I went quickly

 

[James_tiberous]

Same book, pg 53. April 13, 1863

"Another of Lee's generals, Georgian Lafayette McLaws, thought the scene along the Rapahannock was decidedly curious. He had just come from an inspection tour in Fredericksburg, he told his wife, 'and I found thecommand there all in good spirits, the men playing ball, the band playing, some fishing, and all unconcerned about the enemy as if there was no war, no enemy within a thousand miles....' Yet all the time the enemy was in plain sight, 'visible on the other side, parading and drilling and moving about in large masses.' It was a strange sort of war, McLaws concluded, and apparently the unwarlike scene would continue until the Yankees decided to make the first move.'"

 

[RebelHeart]

"A man was shot near our regiment last Sunday for desertion. It was a very solemn scene. The condemned man was seated on his coffin with his hands tied across his breast. A file of twelve soldiers was brought up to within six feet of him, and at the command a volley was fired right into his breast. He was hit by but one ball, because eleven of the guns were loaded with powder only. This was done so that no man can be certain that he killed him...these severe punishments seem necessary to preserve discipline."

One of the more horrifying parts of the war, the armies killing their own.

While it seems unfathomable to many in the modern day, going to war at that time placed a great deal of value on personal honor and courage. A lot of men went to war because they didn't want to be known as the local coward that didn't go when others did. They didn't want to flee battle because they were likely platooned with people from their hometowns whom would reveal their cowardice to everyone at home. Many died bravely and unnecessarily because it seemed better to them than living as a coward.
Beyond that, the war was greatly a game of numbers, and deserters significantly hindered the abilities of commanders to plan sound attacks and defenses. Moreover, depending on exactly when and where a deserter decided to "show the white feather," he could get dozens or more men killed by failing to hold his ground when expected to.
It requires consideration of the mentality of the time that the army wasn't "killing one of their own" because a deserter had already abandoned his allegiance to the cause.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

Hi all,

I always read somethings from a books that sound so interesting but i am not sure I want to just start a topic on it. So I am starting this thread so that anyone can post little tidbits of something that was simply interesting. If its successful, great, if not, no big deal. My first thing is from Chancellorsville by Stephen Sears, pg 45: It about an execution and a quote from a South Carolina surgeon:

"A man was shot near our regiment last Sunday for desertion. It was a very solemn scene. The condemned man was seated on his coffin with his hands tied across his breast. A file of twelve soldiers was brought up to within six feet of him, and at the command a volley was fired right into his breast. He was hit by but one ball, because eleven of the guns were loaded with powder only. This was done so that no man can be certain that he killed him...these severe punishments seem necessary to preserve discipline."

One of the more horrifying parts of the war, the armies killing their own.



Feel free to comment on this post of post your own quotes for discussion. Any topic!

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/civil-war-soldiers-unusual-wounds.123725/

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well, this isn't in a book yet but it will be as soon as I write it. I was fascinated by the image of 6 men, a surf boat and the difficulties of a large steamer trapped by ice. Those reb prisoners were from Fort Fisher and must have regretted the loss of the warmer temperatures, relatively speaking, of the North Carolina coast.

Quartermaster General's Office
Washington D.C.

Hon. John Wilson
3rd Auditor Treas. Dept.
Washington, D.C.

Sir,

I have the honor to transmit herewith for your official information and action the claim of E. J. Morris for services rendered in conveying provisions on board of the U.S. Steamer "General Lyon" January 25th 1865 at Lewes, Delaware amounting to $40.00


The claimant alleges that the "General Lyon" with Rebel prisoners on board was delayed by the ice and was out of provisions in consequence and that he was employed with six men and a large surf boat 14 hours on two consecutive days
in conveying provisions to the vessel and his statement is supported by the certificate of the Officer in command of the guard Capt. Morris F. Sheppard 16th NY Volunteers to the effect that the services were provided by the claimant
as alleged.

The services have never been reported to this office by Captain Sheppard but as the provisions furnished have been ordered paid for by the Commissary General and as the amount claimed in this case is small and the evidence furnished sufficient to warrant a belief in the justice of the claim, it is respectfully recommended that the Auditor allow the
claim

Very respectfully
Your obedient servant
By order of Q.Mr. General
" sgd" Geo D Wise
Bvt. Brig. General & AQ

 

[James_tiberous]

Well, this isn't in a book yet but it will be as soon as I write it. I was fascinated by the image of 6 men, a surf boat and the difficulties of a large steamer trapped by ice. Those reb prisoners were from Fort Fisher and must have regretted the loss of the warmer temperatures, relatively speaking, of the North Carolina coast.

​

Is the picture available???

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

Sorry James - I was imprecise. The "image" was the one in my mind, conjured up by the claim for $40 which was, by the way, paid (voucher undated).

 

[James_tiberous]

Sorry James - I was imprecise. The "image" was the one in my mind, conjured up by the claim for $40 which was, by the way, paid (voucher undated).

Alright! Sounds like a cool idea. Probably would have been interesting watching them struggle to get the steamer free

 

[leftyhunter]

I've read accounts of deserter executions in a coupla Confederate soldier memoirs. It had the desired effect on them.

Not really because the problem only got worse as the war dragged on. Confederate desertets often joined the Union Army or became Unionist guerrillas or freelance bandits. I cover this in my threads "How serious was desertion in the CSA" and "Union vs CSA guerrillas".
Leftyhunter

 

[bdtex]

Not really because the problem only got worse as the war dragged on. Confederate desertets often joined the Union Army or became Unionist guerrillas or freelance bandits. I cover this in my threads "How serious was desertion in the CSA" and "Union vs CSA guerrillas".
Leftyhunter

It had the desired effect on the 2 soldiers who wrote the memoirs. That's what I was talking about.

 

[Carpetbagger]

It had the desired effect on the 2 soldiers who wrote the memoirs. That's what I was talking about.

It had the desired effect on thousands of soldiers. That's why the Union executed deserters, too.

 

[Waterloo50]

I don't really know if this comes under tidbits but I've often wondered if there were ever any rules for either side about keeping diaries, during WW1 British troops could face a court martial if they were found with a personal diary, they were strictly forbidden. I'm thinking about Pleasonton and the captured confederate engineer staff officer who had maintained a personal diary, unfortunately that staff officer had made a couple of notes in his diary which basically laid out a discussion of a council of war at Stuarts HQ, all the big players were mentioned, Jackson, Hill, Ewell and Stuart, unfortunately for that staff officer, he also just happened to write down that the next battle would be fought at or near Chancellorsville. I've often wondered what was going through that staff officers mind when he started to take notes, didn't he realise that he was risking handing out secrets on a gold platter.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

I don't really know if this comes under tidbits but I've often wondered if there were ever any rules for either side about keeping diaries, during WW1 British troops could face a court martial if they were found with a personal diary, they were strictly forbidden.

I dislike referring to films for historical depictions, but your OPSEC-related thought reminded me of a scene from 'The Pacific'...

Merriell Shelton: Saw you readin' last night.
Eugene B. Sledge: My Bible?
Merriell Shelton: Writin', too. Ain't supposed to write s*** down, you know. Gives the Japs valuable intel if they find it.
Eugene B. Sledge: Guess I won't show it to 'em, then.

On a related note, we have this:

'If you your lips would save from slips,
Five things observe with care;
Of whom you speak, to whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.'

(From the Raleigh, North Carolina Weekly Standard, dated 22 Apr 1863)

 

[ct.yankee]

Above all, the Civil War produced great tragedy. Consider this little known fact:

"One tiny but poignant statistic of devastation may be found in the Mississippi budget: in 1866, 20 percent of all state revenues were spent on artificial limbs for Confederate veterans."

 

[DixieRifles]

I don't really know if this comes under tidbits but I've often wondered if there were ever any rules for either side about keeping diaries, during WW1 British troops could face a court martial if they were found with a personal diary, they were strictly forbidden.

I don't know the regulation but the Army did not permit diaries in WW2. BUT I know that many soldiers wrote diaries even it if was nothing but entries about the food and the weather. One soldier in the 34th Division took photos with a Kodak camera and kept a diary which he kept hidden(and protected) in a tobacco can. I'm currently reading a publication of another soldier in the 34th Division, an ambulance driver. He didn't post anything on many days but occassionally he wrote some good details. Their ambulance collection center was usually behind the lines and next to the large 155mm Long Tom's or the 8 inch guns. He described how the concussion would blow out his candle when they fired. Imagine waking up to that at 5:00am.

 

[James_tiberous]

Still reading Chancellorsville. Right now Hookers grand flanking maneuver is underway towards Kelly's Ford and Lee is completely in the dark. If I did not already know the outcome and was sizing up events I'd say Hooker was a pretty good general the union with Stoneman's cavalry a serious force and the army ready to was about to crush Lee. The Confederate army was as threadbare as can be, the cavalry horses mostly famished--as were the men--and Lee's intelligence vastly inferior to Hooker's new intelligence service. What could possibly go wrong???