English Landsman

[Cmac]

I have discovered that my ancestral relative Robert Hope b 1842 in Cumberland England sailed from Liverpool via Ireland to USA in 1863. I find him 'enlisted' on a ship the Clara Dolson for 1 year as a Landsman. The next enlistment was the following year but I haven't any details about that. February 1865 finds him on the Red Rover Hospital ship as an Ordinary Seaman. He died on the 18th July 1865 at Wisconsin.
My queries are :- If he intended to work in the USA would he have been conscripted as soon as he arrived ?
Is it possible to find a Naval record of his activities between 1863 and 1865 and where the ships would sail to. ?
The reason I know the date of death is from a family headstone in his home Churchyard in Cumberland England where he is named so knowing the date of death would there be a death certificate or any burial details as he must have been buried in the USA ?
I would appreciate any details about his couple of years with the Navy in the USA or if someone could point me in the right direction. I would also be interested in the ship the Clara Dolson .
Hoping someone can help.
Cynth

 

[lupaglupa]

I'm only finding one record for the Robert Hope from Cumberland - enlisted December 4, 1863 for one year of general service. Twenty-one years old, born Cumberland, England, a citizen of New York, occupation druggist. He has brown hair, brown eyes, and fair skin. They give his height as 5'11" which was tall for the time. The description of permanent marks or scars is also more detailed than many "small scar on each eyebrow, has congenital deformity of chest." I mention all the physical characteristics because the other records I see for a sailor named Robert Hope is a shorter man with different color eyes, etc.

There is a listing for a pension application that was denied - I can't see anything other than a note that a file existed. Maybe @Bob Velke can find more.

 

[Bob Velke]

The Soldiers & Sailors database does list 11 sailors on the Clara Dolson but that database only includes black Federal sailors - and Robert Hope is not among them. There are no Compiled Military Service Records for navy personnel as there are for the volunteer army. Navy service may be documented through rendezvous reports, keys to enlistments, muster rolls, casualty reports, naval ORs, correspondence with the Secretary of the Navy's office, weekly returns, Courts Martial, and pension files, for instance.

Fold3 has digitized about 96% of the approved CW Union Navy veteran pension files and 100% of the disapproved ones. As @lupaglupa said, there is a Robert Hope who applied for a naval pension (App #42710) but it was not approved. The application should still exist at the National Archives, however. Unfortunately, you won't know if it is your Robert Hope until you see the full file.

Fold3 has also digitized 100% of the CW Union Navy widow pension files (approved and disapproved) but I don't find any who applied for a pension in relation to Robert Hope's service.

If you like, I can help you get App #42710 when the National Archives opens again (after COVID). See my signature.

 

[Bob Velke]

BTW, this is what the National Park Service says about the Clara Dolson:

"Captured January, 1862, by the Mound City on the St. Charles expedition. Purchased from the Illinois prize court, May 25, 1863, by Navy Department. Returned to owners. Transferred, September 30, 1862, to Mississippi Squadron by Assistant Quartermaster G D. Wise. She was one of the largest, handsomest, and in every respect finest steamers on the river. Class: Side-wheel steamer; receiving ship."

See also this discussion. Lots more info about the Clara Dolson there.

 

[Bob Velke]

There were six Union soldiers and at least six Confederate soldiers named Robert Hope (plus some R. Hope, etc.) Have we ruled out army service in addition to his service on the Clara Dolson? Confederate naval service?

 

[Bob Velke]

Wait, there is a separate record of a sailor named George W. Carlock "Alias: Hope, Robert" who applied for (App #42710) and received (Cert. #39707) a pension for Union naval service. The application number is the same as the one mentioned above.

The confusion over the name is probably why it was otherwise recorded as not approved.

 

[Bob Velke]

Nope, the George W. Carlock, aka Robert Hope, served on the U.S.S. North Carolina and the Chicopee and he also served in Co. B, 91st NY Inf. but he died on 22 July 1910 in Bellevue Hospital, NY. Pension payment records show that his widow was Caroline and she died 19 Jan 1930.

Oh, well. At least you saved the cost of pulling the file from the archives.

 

[lupaglupa]

You get a big E for effort @Bob Velke . Sometimes proving someone isn't the right person is (almost) as helpful as proving who is.

 

[Cmac]

Thank you all for your suggestions. It seems there is little info regarding my Robert Hope. As his death date is inscribed on the family headstone in Cumberland, England someone in the family must have had some official notification of his death at that time. His occupation is given as 'druggist' on the 1861 England census.
I cannot get any further with his service at the moment but if anyone might be able to come up with any further info or suggestions I would be grateful.

 

[lupaglupa]

Have you tried looking for immigration records? He should be on a list coming into the Us