Divided Loyalty

[leftyhunter]

Your question makes no sense.

You might want to read the various Ordinances of Secession they will tell you why the Confederates fought.
I pose a simple question ; how does fighting for slavery make one more loyal to ones state?
How is a Unionist soldier less loyal to his state then a Confederate soldier?
How is a USCT soldier less loyal to his state then a Confederate soldier?
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

I think this gets back to the Thomas/Lee conundrum:

Quote @leftyhunter : How does fighting for the cause of slavery make some one more loyal to their state?

Lee & Thomas both are Virginians, but Lee chooses the side of the CSA, whilst Thomas chooses the USA.

1. Did Lee choose Virginia over the USA, or did he choose to defend slavery?

2. Did Thomas choose the USA over Virginia, or did he choose to fight against the cause of slavery?

3. Was each man more or less loyal to their state, or were they taking a stand on slavery?
​

If I understand where Lefty is coming from, I believe that he poses the question of loyalty in a way that I have not considered in the past.

Ironically Thomas owned two slaves but he did free them. Thomas was not willing to fight to expand slavery.
By definition Lee fought for slavery since the Confederate Constitution banned any state from outlawing slavery.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Yes because we all know Northern factory owners treated their workers sooo much better.
It's the old Glass House thing....

They treated them good enough that the next generation could rise to the middle class.
Leftyhunter

 

[major bill]

My question is, did southern factory owners treat their workers better than Northern factory workers? Is there any statistics to show that Southern factory workers were treated better than Northern factory workers? Also the pay of and working conditions of, either North Or is not really about divided loyalties.

 

[leftyhunter]

It's a red herring and one that is well over used in these debates. Furthermore, in my opinion, if General Lee were confronted with such an accusation, I don't believe that he would even dignify the accusation with a response.

Also, if one is going to suggest that Lee's loyalty was to slavery then one can equally suggest that Thomas' loyalty was to tyranny.

What is the exact nature of the tyranny that Thomas fought for?
Leftyhunter

 

[huskerblitz]

They treated them good enough that the next generation could rise to the middle class.
Leftyhunter

With all due respect, it was the workers themselves through labor unions that established a middle class. And why were labor unions necessary? Wasn't because the owners were giving out hefty Christmas bonuses.

 

[leftyhunter]

With all due respect, it was the workers themselves through labor unions that established a middle class. And why were labor unions necessary? Wasn't because the owners were giving out hefty Christmas bonuses.

That's true my Grand aunt was in the ILGU. On the other hand at least the factory workers were with some difficulty able to form labor unions. Slaves where born into poverty and died in poverty. In one generation my family and countless others where able to move from being poor factory workers to the middle class. Can you show that the slaves did better?
Leftyhunter

 

[Borderruffian]

Apparnetly you've not had much contact with People who were born and "raised up" in Texas.we'll tell ya.Even us transplanted Texan's . All my daughters are native Texans, they'll tell before the question leaves your mouth. They and I know we're Americans, but some how your first loyalty remains with the Lone Star, we are proud that we're Texans

 

[2nd Dragoon]

My father's family came to California 1872 by way of Kentucky; my mother's 1942 by way of Perryville, Alabama, Easland, Texas and Bowie, Colorado. I was born in California and I have lived in this state for nearly 66 years except for 2 years in Hawaii and 4 years in Washington but I call myself an "American" before I would call myself a Californian much less show loyalty to California.

 

[damYankee]

There was the issue of sectionalism that is seldom considered today, but was an issue at the time.