Devotion to the cause?

[Lubliner]

But which cause is more important, honor over rank/position/duty or loyalty to a greater cause such as Union or Independence?

Loyalty to the cause was based upon the premise of secession. But the rank of leadership played an important role in later developments. Jackson, J. E. Johnston, Beauregard; these three had sought the honor of posterity and remembrance in the pages of history in being linked with the 'cause'. Lee offered his due to believing someone else would be better fit for the command, while in a depressed state of mind.
Lubliner.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Actually it was you who pointed out they could have left with the consent of the others, I agreed, instead Lincoln called for 75k troops....but again it seems you are trying to steer away from the OP, even when I agree that you were right in the other states could have let them go.

And wouldn't say the premise ignored honor at all, that is in part the heart of the op

Okay no, we don't agree. You misrepresent what I said, but carry on.

 

[archieclement]

Loyalty to the cause was based upon the premise of secession. But the rank of leadership played an important role in later developments. Jackson, J. E. Johnston, Beauregard; these three had sought the honor of posterity and remembrance in the pages of history in being linked with the 'cause'. Lee offered his due to believing someone else would be better fit for the command, while in a depressed state of mind.
Lubliner.

Generals of both sides would sometimes offer/ threaten resignations/ ask for transfers ect over of matter like rank, perceived slights such as Grant contemplated resigning after Shiloh, ect

If one wants to serve a cause.....wouldn't serving the cause be more important then at what rank/assignment/duty ect. Because if not, it wouldn't be the cause that is actually the priority

 

[Lubliner]

Generals of both sides would sometimes offer/ threaten resignations/ ask for transfers ect over of matter like rank, perceived slights such as Grant contemplated resigning after Shiloh, ect

If one wants to serve a cause.....wouldn't serving the cause be more important then at what rank/assignment/duty ect

Not really. That would be similar to impressment and bondage. If one is slighted by what he deems as dishonest, or lacking due process as it was accorded, it would be similar to working without wage, while it was garnished for others.
Lubliner.

 

[archieclement]

Not really. That would be similar to impressment and bondage. If one is slighted by what he deems as dishonest, or lacking due process as it was accorded, it would be similar to working without wage, while it was garnished for others.
Lubliner.

Don't see that, if one is devoted to the cause they would subordinate their personal ambition to the cause.....otherwise it's just personal ambition motivating them, not any devotion to a cause......instead both sides officer corps at times seem rife with pettiness over rank or assignment.

 

[Quaama]

Loyalty to the cause was based upon the premise of secession. But the rank of leadership played an important role in later developments. Jackson, J. E. Johnston, Beauregard; these three had sought the honor of posterity and remembrance in the pages of history in being linked with the 'cause'. Lee offered his due to believing someone else would be better fit for the command, while in a depressed state of mind.
Lubliner.

How do you deduce that when Lee's letter of resignation doesn't say anything about someone else being better fit for command. Nor do I see how you arrive at a diagnosis of depression.

 

[Lubliner]

How do you deduce that when Lee's letter of resignation doesn't say anything about someone else being better fit for command. Nor do I see how you arrive at a diagnosis of depression.

I was speaking of his interactions with Davis in Richmond after Gettysburg. He had believed his failure would hurt the morale of the army, and he doubted his own abilities to lead thence on. It took some persuasion to encourage him from his despondency. It is not a diagnostic analysis of deep depression. It is a meaningful sadness of the hert and spirit within man that is common among us all. I do not involve 'diagnostics' without looking for higher authority, and I prefer not to be placed under such assumption, thank you.
Lubliner.

 

[Lubliner]

@Quaama there is an opportunity as well to find General Lee's own reasons more in depth by looking into his personal correspondence to members of his family. These are published in a book, and excerpted on line I am sure. I see where the misunderstanding is placed between the two times and hope that qualifies for ameliorating your immediate concerns.
Lubliner.

 

[Lubliner]

No argument with that. The view would depend on the individual as when you asked "But if one believes in a cause, shouldn't that take precedence over ones rank, duty, or assignment?" Some would choose the cause they believed in whereas others may think that their duty lay with their position at the time and not resign from that position.

You make a really good point in your last line. I cannot think of any northerners off-hand that would prefer the prestige and money over a common value of integrity. Do you know of any?
Thanks,
Lubliner.

 

[Lubliner]

Breckinridge?

 

[Quaama]

I was speaking of his interactions with Davis in Richmond after Gettysburg. He had believed his failure would hurt the morale of the army, and he doubted his own abilities to lead thence on. It took some persuasion to encourage him from his despondency. It is not a diagnostic analysis of deep depression. It is a meaningful sadness of the hert and spirit within man that is common among us all. I do not involve 'diagnostics' without looking for higher authority, and I prefer not to be placed under such assumption, thank you.
Lubliner.

I was thinking it may have been post-Gettysburg. I suppose I just wanted to have it 'on the record' that such was not the case at the beginning of the war.

 

[Lubliner]

I was thinking it may have been post-Gettysburg. I suppose I just wanted to have it 'on the record' that such was not the case at the beginning of the war.

I remember some of his personal reasons that he informed his family in the first instance. Maybe the word 'crestfallen' would be an adequate definition?
Thanks for remaining interested in what occurs by being pressed into difficult decisions that prove no-win situations to all involved.
Lubliner.

 

[Quaama]

You make a really good point in your last line. I cannot think of any northerners off-hand that would prefer the prestige and money over a common value of integrity. Do you know of any?
Thanks,
Lubliner.

None that I'd care to point the finger at without spending some time on research although I suspect that there were some who must have felt their career prospects were better served by remaining in the US army rather than return to their home States.
I'd be shocked to think that there wasn't any at all but hopefully there are more capable researchers than I who can ferret them out.

 

[Quaama]

I remember some of his personal reasons that he informed his family in the first instance. Maybe the word 'crestfallen' would be an adequate definition?
Thanks for remaining interested in what occurs by being pressed into difficult decisions that prove no-win situations to all involved.
Lubliner.

From all I've read Lee loved the Union. Only when faced with an unavoidable choice did he realise his love for his country was greater. [I haven't read the book you referred to in Post #28 but I have read many of his letters. I also recall reading a book [printed out from an electronic copy] written by a Chaplain in the ANV which was also instructive on Lee's character.]

 

[Lubliner]

From all I've read Lee loved the Union. Only when faced with an unavoidable choice did he realise his love for his country was greater. [I haven't read the book you referred to in Post #28 but I have read many of his letters. I also recall reading a book [printed out from an electronic copy] written by a Chaplain in the ANV which was also instructive on Lee's character.]

On April 20, 1861 Robert Lee wrote to his 'Brother Smith' some of his strong feelings. Here are a couple of lines from that letter also sent from Arlington;
"I am now a private citizen, and have no other ambition than to remain at home. Save in the defense of my native State I have no desire ever again to draw my sword" [page 92, General Lee, by author Fitz Lee, © 1961 by Fawcett Publications, Inc. First Premier Printing January 1961].
Fitz Lee bases the importance of his decision with this description on page 83;
"To the State of Lee's nativity the independence of the colonies and their union afterward was largely due. One of her sons held the sword and the other the pen that accomplished the great work. The superb oratory of another kept the campfires of the Revolution burning brightly....".
To feel that Lee was disgusted by the lack of agreement between the north and the south would probably not be to far off the mark. Of course Douglas Southall Freeman is a go-to source on General Lee.
Lubliner.
[Bit of difficulty as two-hand typist holding book of small print].