Deserters

[josh54739]

I was wondering how deserters were treated after the Civil War. Although some were put to death for deserting, it appears that most of them got away. I read many of them fled to Canada, but some were able to get home safely.

 

[leftyhunter]

I was wondering how deserters were treated after the Civil War. Although some were put to death for deserting, it appears that most of them got away. I read many of them fled to Canada, but some were able to get home safely.

That sounds about right. The US Govt just did not have the resources or will to have the US Marshall Service track down tens of thousands of deserters and imprison them. One way to avoid stigma for deserters on either side from being ridiculed or worse by the men of their community who did not desert was to just move far away.
Leftyhunter

 

[John Winn]

Good question. I think Lefty is right but I'd guess that in some little towns the locals supported the deserters for various reasons (e.g. didn't support the war, were unhappy about conscription, needed the men at home). I think a lot of southerners would have supported deserters because many left to support starving families or because their hearts were just not in the fight after a point.

 

[TerryB]

Go West, young man.

 

[leftyhunter]

Good question. I think Lefty is right but I'd guess that in some little towns the locals supported the deserters for various reasons (e.g. didn't support the war, were unhappy about conscription, needed the men at home). I think a lot of southerners would have supported deserters because many left to support starving families or because their hearts were just not in the fight after a point.

I think your right its all about where a deserter is from. A deserter from say Lawrence,Kn
might want to watch his back.In the South a deserter would far better off if he was from a Unionist area vs say the cotton belt.
Leftyhunter

 

[peteanddelmar]

Good question. I think Lefty is right but I'd guess that in some little towns the locals supported the deserters for various reasons (e.g. didn't support the war, were unhappy about conscription, needed the men at home). I think a lot of southerners would have supported deserters because many left to support starving families or because their hearts were just not in the fight after a point.

In Missouri nobody could tell a real deserter from men who left for 1000 other reasons. After battles confusion was rampant in all arenas. Except for Missourians serving in well organized Union forces, many were part of scores of different partisan groups from either side. A Missourian or Arkansan that left while close to home wasn't looked down on so much. Sometimes it was just self styled furlough and the man came back to a different force when it traveled through. Transportation was difficult and folks were VERY local.

I'm talking about the southern part of the state and Arkansas.

However, I just figured out with help from Barrycdog and Allie that my ancestor who fought for the 6th Missouri Cavalry was eventually joined by all 5 of his brothers. And the Union kept track of them all. If they had truly deserted they would have at least had the Union mad at them!

 

[Allie]

I have a cluster of Dickerson relatives from co. M 7th Tenn Cav (CSA) who deserted as a family group, two brothers and their father. They had first cousins with the same company who did not desert.

Presumably because the area of Lauderdale county they lived in was under Union control, they don't appear to have been pursued or prosecuted. In his regimental history of the 7th Tenn Cav, JP Young says that he will not list men who deserted on the rolls because they have forfeited the right - and in fact the deserter Dickersons don't appear there. In his memoir of the company, my relative CSO Rice is a little more charitable, stating that some men who had deserted came back to the regiment to be with the others for the surrender at Gainsville, and that they were welcomed back - which, incidentally, contradicts the often-repeated story that Forrest executed all deserters, even ones who came right back. However, he doesn't say what he thought of men who never did come back.

It doesn't appear there were lasting hard feelings after the war. The deserters all continued to live in the same community. All three died relatively young, and in one case the children were taken in by a man who had served with them.

 

[PatW]

I have never heard of any organized attempts to impose sanctions on deserters fro USA service after the cessation of hostilities. The federal government probably lacked the resources to do so unless it became a priority. With the president feuding with congress such a matter had little or no chance of becoming a priority.

As for CSA deserters, the CSA did not punish them for the simple reason that it no longer existed. Also Reconstruction meant that the old power structure was on the outs until reconstruction ended in 1876 by then, I doubt that desertion was much of an issue. Remember the families of poor soldiers came under increasing privation as the war continued. Many deserted for the purpose of providing for their families. I imagine that this fact was well known and it had to have tempered any enthusiasm for sanctions. Also, just what would be the charge? The states were back in the Union. The war was officially a rebellion. Charging people for deserting a rebellion would be a legal absurdity.

 

[Specster]

In Missouri nobody could tell a real deserter from men who left for 1000 other reasons. After battles confusion was rampant in all arenas. Except for Missourians serving in well organized Union forces, many were part of scores of different partisan groups from either side. A Missourian or Arkansan that left while close to home wasn't looked down on so much. Sometimes it was just self styled furlough and the man came back to a different force when it traveled through. Transportation was difficult and folks were VERY local.

I'm talking about the southern part of the state and Arkansas.

However, I just figured out with help from Barrycdog and Allie that my ancestor who fought for the 6th Missouri Cavalry was eventually joined by all 5 of his brothers. And the Union kept track of them all. If they had truly deserted they would have at least had the Union mad at them!

Werent many of these men Jayhawkers and Bushwackers, and that is why you really couldnt keep track of them? Personally, I just cant turn a blind eye toward this kind of thing - either you are a combatant or you are not. To wear the garb of a civilian during the day and commit atrocities in the dead of night, in the same garb - I have no sympathy for these men. Whatever they got, IMO, they had coming - during or post war.

The other bunch I disdain are the bountry jumpers - men who signed up for the Union with hefty signing bonuses, then disserted - unless I am mistaken they had to have disserted, to go to another recruiting center and sign under another name, collecting another bonus. Id have liked to see these winners hunted down and get their due.

 

[peteanddelmar]

Werent many of these men Jayhawkers and Bushwackers, and that is why you really couldnt keep track of them? Personally, I just cant turn a blind eye toward this kind of thing - either you are a combatant or you are not. To wear the garb of a civilian during the day and commit atrocities in the dead of night, in the same garb - I have no sympathy for these men. Whatever they got, IMO, they had coming - during or post war.

The other bunch I disdain are the bountry jumpers - men who signed up for the Union with hefty signing bonuses, then disserted - unless I am mistaken they had to have disserted, to go to another recruiting center and sign under another name, collecting another bonus. Id have liked to see these winners hunted down and get their due.

Yes, many were. But the ones that served in regular units of the Confederacy were given much more leeway to leave and return than eastern armies. Sometimes just so they could eat and have some clothes made. Many Confederates were not in any uniform out here.
Union units were more formal.

I am not carrying the torch for a true deserter. Just discussing this region's differences in degree.

 

[Specster]

Yes, many were. But the ones that served in regular units of the Confederacy were given much more leeway to leave and return than eastern armies. Sometimes just so they could eat and have some clothes made. Many Confederates were not in any uniform out here.
Union units were more formal.

I am not carrying the torch for a true deserter. Just discussing this region's differences in degree.

I can appreciate the fact that basics got very lean for the South as the war went on. There are stories of wealthy women melting down jewelry for use as bullets and drapes being used as garments. I have recently read there was a proposition that all Confederate woman shave their heads and have the hair sold in Europe, which would have netted something like $40,000. The men were against it and thats why it never happened - the women were willing to make the sacrifice.

If a Confederate fought, clad in civies, next to their uniformed brothers, I have no problem with that. When an entire raiding force is clad, alone and at all times, in civilian clothes, and are using that fact to their advantage, I have no sympathy for what happens to them, and the same goes for Jayhawkers, and bonus bounty jumpers.

 

[peteanddelmar]

I can appreciate the fact that basics got very lean for the South as the war went on. There are stories of wealthy women melting down jewelry for use as bullets and drapes being used as garments. I have recently read there was a proposition that all Confederate woman shave their heads and have the hair sold in Europe, which would have netted something like $40,000. The men were against it and thats why it never happened - the women were willing to make the sacrifice.

If a Confederate fought, clad in civies, next to their uniformed brothers, I have no problem with that. When an entire raiding force is clad, alone and at all times, in civilian clothes, and are using that fact to their advantage, I have no sympathy for what happens to them, and the same goes for Jayhawkers, and bonus bounty jumpers.

Yeah. Missouri was infested with partisans and freebooters and just criminal gangs. Quantrell ordered mass murder. Bloody Bill Anderson was evil. Archie Clement was a psychopath.

The non uniformed, non flagged guerrillas that just killed and disappeared is why Missouri had many counties were part of the Burnt District and depopulated.

The fighting by legitimate units in the Trans-Mississippi also wasn't much more than "Indian fighting" in many instances. Less "form a line and be cut down" type fighting.

My ggg grandpa and my 5 ggg grand uncles went with the 6th Missouri Cavalry, Union, clear up in St. Louis. 2 died of disease, but as far as I know, non deserted.

 

[Specster]

Yeah. Missouri was infested with partisans and freebooters and just criminal gangs. Quantrell ordered mass murder. Bloody Bill Anderson was evil. Archie Clement was a psychopath.

The non uniformed, non flagged guerrillas that just killed and disappeared is why Missouri had many counties were part of the Burnt District and depopulated.

The fighting by legitimate units in the Trans-Mississippi also wasn't much more than "Indian fighting" in many instances. Less "form a line and be cut down" type fighting.

My ggg grandpa and my 5 ggg grand uncles went with the 6th Missouri Cavalry, Union, clear up in St. Louis. 2 died of disease, but as far as I know, non deserted.

Impressive ancestry....Kudos

 

[leftyhunter]

Yes, many were. But the ones that served in regular units of the Confederacy were given much more leeway to leave and return than eastern armies. Sometimes just so they could eat and have some clothes made. Many Confederates were not in any uniform out here.
Union units were more formal.

I am not carrying the torch for a true deserter. Just discussing this region's differences in degree.

T.J. Stiles book "Jesse James the last rebel of the Civil War" has a lot of detail on what happened to the bushwackers during reconstruction. Some like Little Archie Clements met there maker others went west often to Mt. However quite a few stayed put and a few pro Union folks where killed by former bushwackers. In Ar some former Union and CSA soldiers fought again the ex Union soldiers ( many of whom had previously deserted from the CSA ) where members of the Ar State Militia vs the CSA soldiers who joined the KKK. I have a book that I have not yet read about post war violence in East Tn.
Overall former bushwackers where not punished for their crimes and where more or less productive members of the community. Of course there where quite a few exceptions to the rule i.e. the James-Younger gang.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Yeah. Missouri was infested with partisans and freebooters and just criminal gangs. Quantrell ordered mass murder. Bloody Bill Anderson was evil. Archie Clement was a psychopath.

The non uniformed, non flagged guerrillas that just killed and disappeared is why Missouri had many counties were part of the Burnt District and depopulated.

The fighting by legitimate units in the Trans-Mississippi also wasn't much more than "Indian fighting" in many instances. Less "form a line and be cut down" type fighting.

My ggg grandpa and my 5 ggg grand uncles went with the 6th Missouri Cavalry, Union, clear up in St. Louis. 2 died of disease, but as far as I know, non deserted.

The burnt district barely lasted a year and then the original families more or less returned. Your right COIN warfare is often based on long boring patrols with occasional sharp but short fire fights often with no need to take prisoners. You make a good point in that from all the books I read about COIN war in Mo desertion was not a problem among the MSM and the various Union Coin units. Ironically the 1st and 2nd Ar Cav USV which did a lot of COIN fighting in Mo and Ar was largely composed of CSA deserters.
Leftyhunter

 

[Allie]

Werent many of these men Jayhawkers and Bushwackers, and that is why you really couldnt keep track of them? Personally, I just cant turn a blind eye toward this kind of thing - either you are a combatant or you are not. To wear the garb of a civilian during the day and commit atrocities in the dead of night, in the same garb - I have no sympathy for these men. Whatever they got, IMO, they had coming - during or post war.

The other bunch I disdain are the bountry jumpers - men who signed up for the Union with hefty signing bonuses, then disserted - unless I am mistaken they had to have disserted, to go to another recruiting center and sign under another name, collecting another bonus. Id have liked to see these winners hunted down and get their due.

We disagree - I have no sympathy for an invading army that expects the populace to only resist in nice official formations! Don't like it, free to go home.

Of course, Missouri is a slightly different matter, since there wasn't the same invader/invaded dynamic.

 

[leftyhunter]

Werent many of these men Jayhawkers and Bushwackers, and that is why you really couldnt keep track of them? Personally, I just cant turn a blind eye toward this kind of thing - either you are a combatant or you are not. To wear the garb of a civilian during the day and commit atrocities in the dead of night, in the same garb - I have no sympathy for these men. Whatever they got, IMO, they had coming - during or post war.

The other bunch I disdain are the bountry jumpers - men who signed up for the Union with hefty signing bonuses, then disserted - unless I am mistaken they had to have disserted, to go to another recruiting center and sign under another name, collecting another bonus. Id have liked to see these winners hunted down and get their due.

There where bounty jumpers in the CSA my favorite being of course Vernon Presley who had the nerve ( this is a family forum) to join two Ms cav units and take the horse on a one way trip out. Some how by the grace of a higher power he lived and with out old Vernon no Elvis so desertion can be a good thing!
Leftyhunter

 

[Patrick H]

Actually, Allie, Missouri WAS invaded and occupied early in the war. After Gov. Jackson sent his nasty letter back to President Lincoln inviting him to "stick it", we were fairly well awash with regulars from Iowa, Illinois, and other states--at least for a while.

Specster, Missouri guerrillas were famous for wearing uniforms--just not the kind you're envisioning. First and foremost was the guerrilla shirt. If you've ever seen the famous death photo of Bill Anderson, that's a guerrilla shirt he's wearing. Everyone in Missouri during the war would have recognized a guerrilla shirt immediately on first sight and it definitely would have identified the wearer.

Of course, some of the guerrillas occasionally wore another kind of uniform, too--captured federal or militia uniforms. This justifiably rankled their adversaries and I can't blame you for feeling the same way.

But our own Missouri militias were known to wear a mix of civilian and uniform clothing, too, and to masquerade as guerrillas from time to time, so they weren't above reproach.

It got just pure-D crazy out here very early in the war and it stayed that war for a very long time!

In saying all that, I'm not making excuses for anyone on either side. I'm just telling you what really happened. ...and some of it happened right here in my home town.

 

[Specster]

We disagree - I have no sympathy for an invading army that expects the populace to only resist in nice official formations! Don't like it, free to go home.

Of course, Missouri is a slightly different matter, since there wasn't the same invader/invaded dynamic.

I think a lot of people who were truly neutral got caught in the cross fire and paid for the action of these gangs. Often innocent people paid for the actions of a few. When the were reprisals do you want to call foul? Many people have a romantic notion of these gangs. As time went on many got wilder and wilder and just wanted to fill their own pockets at anyone - Pro North or South's expense.

 

[Specster]

Actually, Allie, Missouri WAS invaded and occupied early in the war. After Gov. Jackson sent his nasty letter back to President Lincoln inviting him to "stick it", we were fairly well awash with regulars from Iowa, Illinois, and other states--at least for a while.

Specster, Missouri guerrillas were famous for wearing uniforms--just not the kind you're envisioning. First and foremost was the guerrilla shirt. If you've ever seen the famous death photo of Bill Anderson, that's a guerrilla shirt he's wearing. Everyone in Missouri during the war would have recognized a guerrilla shirt immediately on first sight and it definitely would have identified the wearer.

Of course, some of the guerrillas occasionally wore another kind of uniform, too--captured federal or militia uniforms. This justifiably rankled their adversaries and I can't blame you for feeling the same way.

But our own Missouri militias were known to wear a mix of civilian and uniform clothing, too, and to masquerade as guerrillas from time to time, so they weren't above reproach.

It got just pure-D crazy out here very early in the war and it stayed that war for a very long time!

In saying all that, I'm not making excuses for anyone on either side. I'm just telling you what really happened. ...and some of it happened right here in my home town.

I usually appreciate your positions, and it is not that I do not appreciate this one. Yet, I do not put much stock in a band a guerrillas wearing a shirt while raiding and call that a uniform. They may have had self serving intrest in doing so. At the Alamo, Mexicans loyal to Texas put cards in their hats so they would not shoot each other - not be mistaken for, ah, Mexican Mexicans.

I will assume you are correct about the Anderson guerilla shirts, does that mean they wore them day and night, 7 days a week, or that all guerrillas wore Id'ing attire?