Deliberate Fratricide ("Fragging")

[Story]

The term fragging is used to describe the deliberate killing or attempted killing by a soldier of a fellow soldier, usually a superior officer or non-commissioned officer (NCO).

While the slang term is probably very much from the Vietnam War era, the concept is probably as old as warfare itself.

Edited out the image. Sir, you should know better. Matthew McKeon
If you were a Company Commander leading men and boys you'd grown up with and the Regimental Commander was only concerned with his own glory, I could see where accidents might happen. On purpose, even.

That said, does anyone know of a commander they suspect became a casualty (with help from Friendly Forces)?

I'd searched for previous threads on this topic, but nothing jumped out. If you know of one, please reference below.

 

[GS]

Here's a situation, and a question:
The demoralized Consolidated Regiment (Alabama 27, 35th and 49th infantry) of Hood's Army of Tennessee refused to obey Hood's order of "No Quarter!" when capturing a black regiment 1000 strong in Dalton, GA, after Atlanta fell. They continued on toward Nashville, and in Decatur, were placed on the front line for four days battling in Decatur, where there were deaths; moved on to Franklin, TN, where numerous officers were killed, then on to Nashville, where all but a handful of the Consolidated survived. Coincidental or fragging?

 

[AlexPensFan86]

Can't recall where I read the sources but I have heard stories that both Dixon Miles at Harper's Ferry and Thomas R. R. Cobb at Fredericksburg were both intentionally fatally wounded by friendly fire. Haven't seen any other corroborating evidence so I am unsure as to the validity.

 

[leftyhunter]

The term fragging is used to describe the deliberate killing or attempted killing by a soldier of a fellow soldier, usually a superior officer or non-commissioned officer (NCO).

While the slang term is probably very much from the Vietnam War era, the concept is probably as old as warfare itself.

Edited out the image. Sir, you should know better. Matthew McKeon

That said, does anyone know of a commander they suspect became a casualty (with help from Friendly Forces)?

I'd searched for previous threads on this topic, but nothing jumped out. If you know of one, please reference below.

That is a challenging question. Edited by Chellers as moderator.
Same for the Civil War. Yes we know desertion was common on both sides. Yes we know many Confederate soldiers did defect to the Union Army and or become Unionist guerrillas or freelance bandits.
How many soldiers on either side actually fragged their officers based on empirical evidence?
That's a tough question.
Leftyhunter

 

[Carronade]

Here's a situation, and a question:
The demoralized Consolidated Regiment (Alabama 27, 35th and 49th infantry) of Hood's Army of Tennessee refused to obey Hood's order of "No Quarter!" when capturing a black regiment 1000 strong in Dalton, GA, after Atlanta fell. They continued on toward Nashville, and in Decatur, were placed on the front line for four days battling in Decatur, where there were deaths; moved on to Franklin, TN, where numerous officers were killed, then on to Nashville, where all but a handful of the Consolidated survived. Coincidental or fragging?

Who is it suggested might have been fragged, or doing the fragging, in this case? I could see there being resentment towards Hood or the senior officers who placed them in the front lines; but is there reason for the men of the regiment to resent, let alone assassinate, their own officers?

 

[diane]

I would suggest it may have been a matter of a different mind set at that time. Officers were indeed killed by their men, but not usually in a battle situation. Marmaduke killed Walker in a duel, J C Davis killed Bull Nelson in outright murder, Forrest was more or less ambushed and shot by his own lieutenant, Gould. These, though, were matters of offended honor - Gould, Walker and Davis believed they had been called cowards. Apparently honor could be satisfied by shooting an unarmed man dead - neither Nelson or Forrest had weapons (except Forrest was a weapon) - but for the most part back shooting or sneaky assassination would be deemed dishonorable and the yellow stain would never leave the perpetrator's back, even if he was the only one who knew about it.

 

[Tom Elmore]

I will post the citation when located, but one incident I recall occurred when a junior officer repeatedly struck a soldier with the flat of his sword. The officer thought the man was shirking his duty, but he was actually suffering from the intense heat, probably experiencing heat exhaustion. Another soldier in the ranks who witnessed the scene said he would "mark" that officer - draw your own conclusions.

Lt. Alfred Zachry wrote about an incident (with extenuating circumstances) that occurred on the retreat from Gettysburg, while he was on Provost Guard duty. "Some of the men that were at the barn in the early morning had imbibed too freely and were down on the road and were a lot of trouble to get to their command. One, a Virginia soldier, refused to move on. I took him by the arm to help him on his feet when he drew his bayonet to make a lunge at me; one of the guard secured his arm, fortunately for me, before he could strike." (Alfred Zachry, 3rd Georgia, Fighting with the Third Georgia)

Another incident, again with extenuating circumstances: "A young man, the only son of wealthy parents, living at Buffalo, who was first sergeant of his company and had been left to guard the prisoners, had ordered one of his men to do some duty, which he refused. On the impulse of the moment he struck him, and in return instantly received a stab in the neck … he was never conscious afterwards and died in great agony, after lingering two or three days." (Hospital Scenes After the Battle of Gettysburg, Patriot Daughters of Lancaster, p. 26)

 

[Story]

That's a tough question.

I'd submit that there's a constant baseline %, albeit a small one, that runs thoroughout all armies in combat. This theory basically turns my question into an open-ended murder mystery.

 

[Rebforever]

Seems to me like fragging is just real modern day use of a word.

 

[Story]

but for the most part back shooting or sneaky assassination would be deemed dishonorable and the yellow stain would never leave the perpetrator's back, even if he was the only one who knew about it.

Would this not be true across all time as well?

 

[Story]

Seems to me like fragging is just real modern day use.

The verbiage, I'll agree as I originally posited. The concept I suspect is age-old.

 

[Story]

but is there reason for the men of the regiment to resent, let alone assassinate, their own officers?

From the character Captain Yossarian, in the novel CATCH-22

 

[Rebforever]

The verbiage, I'll agree as I originally posited. The concept I suspect is age-old.

What was the basic method of fragging someone?

 

[Story]

What was the basic method of fragging someone?

Surely you rhetorical. For the peanut gallery, he's referring to the fragmentation hand grenade - but the concept could easily have been executed with a bullet, blade or arrow in someone's back (or front).

 

[Rebforever]

Surely you rhetorical. For the peanut gallery, he's referring to the fragmentation hand grenade - but the concept could easily have been executed with a bullet, blade or arrow in someone's back (or front).[/QUOT]
Edited by Chellers. Sarcastic and impolite.

 

[diane]

Would this not be true across all time as well?

Well, to me, anybody who can't face their enemy in a fair fight, kills them from ambush because they know they can't take them one on one... That guy gives honest cowards a bad name.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I don't know if this counts as fragging exactly but certainly in "giving cowards a bad name." In Gettysburg, a witness in a house saw a very wounded and exhausted Union soldier "walking" barely limping forward not trying to shoot or even looking people in the face, just moving. Then they heard, "shoot him, shoot him" and some CSA soldiers shot him in the back. The Union soldier hadn't even tried to turn around. It shocked the house witness because it was so clear that this Union soldier was out of the fight and barely creeping along looking for help and the CSA soldiers purposely targeted (in the back) someone who no longer was in the fray.

 

[Story]

Well, to me, anybody who can't face their enemy in a fair fight, kills them from ambush because they know they can't take them one on one... That guy gives honest cowards a bad name.

Huh. And yet we were taught ambushes from the first days of (20th century) field training. That whole standing up in plain sight seems to go out of fashion with General Braddock, or marching up Breed's Hill.

 

[mofederal]

There is the story about someone in the old pre war Army trying to kill Bragg with a cannon ball. I believe the person lit the fuse and rolled it into Bragg's tent. I don't even know if the story is true or not.

 

[diane]

Huh. And yet we were taught ambushes from the first days of (20th century) field training. That whole standing up in plain sight seems to go out of fashion with General Braddock, or marching up Breed's Hill.

You think I said that? We're talking about personal anger/grudges against officers ending in that officer's accidentally-on-purpose death or injury.

I think the OP is about this being done in combat, but sometimes it spilled over into post-war civilian life. Take the curious case of Maj William H Forrest and his trippy trip back home on the Natchez Trace. One of his scouts had murdered another scout and the major's testimony put the perp in jail for five years. After he got out, he gathered some help - which happened to be people with pre-war grudges against the whole Forrest family - and these fine upstanding citizens bush-whacked Bill. Would have been easier to bush-whack his brother Nathan... At any rate, Bill received a stomach wound that did not heal properly and a couple years later bad water combined with this injury and off he went. I wouldn't doubt there were many more of these types of post-war revenge killings and 'accidents' than might be thought.