CS Brunswick Rifle Documentation

Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Here are a couple of ordnance records that mention CS use of the Brunswick Rifle. One is for the 27th Louisiana, and the other is for Maury's Division. Both units were part of the Vicksburg Garrison at the time of issue.

27thLABrunswick.jpg


MauryDivBrunswickRifles.jpg
 
This is all very interesting. Thank you for posting it.

I'm left wondering just what the Brunswick muskets referred to about halfway down the top list are. My guess would be British Pattern 1842, but if one looks at the examples in The English Connection, there are several variations of Brunswicks shown. None, however, would I think could be referred to as muskets.

Also, can anyone make out what type of muskets are referred to in line 4 of the top document, just under "60 Mifs Rifles"?
 
This is all very interesting. Thank you for posting it.

I'm left wondering just what the Brunswick muskets referred to about halfway down the top list are. My guess would be British Pattern 1842, but if one looks at the examples in The English Connection, there are several variations of Brunswicks shown. None, however, would I think could be referred to as muskets.

Also, can anyone make out what type of muskets are referred to in line 4 of the top document, just under "60 Mifs Rifles"?
For your first question I think it is referring to Percussion Musket Bayonets. For the second, it's "Minnie Muskets" A lot of the time that can mean M1855 Rifle Muskets but it's unclear here.
 
First question was referring to the first document, the line under "35 Bayonet Scabbards for Brunswick Rifles" which would read, "207 do (ditto) do Muskets" or completely spelled out, 207 Bayonet Scabbards for Brunswick Muskets.

As to the second question, I'm not sure I'm getting "Minie" or "Minnie" out of that, but it could be. If it is, Confederate documents listing Minie Rifles (or muskets) often refer to the British Pattern 1851.
 
I interpret the 207 scabbards as for muskets. The "do" notations are centered under the "bayonet scabbards" only.

The Mifs Rifles are almost certainly Mississippi Rifles. Using a "f" in lieu of a "s" when there is another "s" following it is a fairly common, if archaic, practice.
 
I've seen one Brunswick with CS provenance supposedly picked up from the Knoxville battlefield after the fight.

I dunno, if I was a soldier handed a Brunswick in lieu of a P53 or M1841 I'd have been "Gee… thanks?" It really was a poor weapon.
I'd curious to know more about Knoxville provenance on a Brunswick.

As for the gun itself, load a Minie in it and I'd reckon that'd undo is main headache.
 
It's very poorly balanced imho and heavier than either I mentioned.

FWIW I weighed my two CS Brunswicks. They weigh approximately 9.25 and 9.4lbs each. Two M1841s weigh approximately 9.4 and 9.6lbs. A handful of type 3 P1853s average about 8.8lbs.
The scale was a cheap kitchen type, and the guns weren't perfectly balanced, so the weights are undoubtedly off slightly.

IMO the Brunswick is heavy in the buttstock, but is more comfortable than a US M1841 when it comes to pointing and aiming.
 
The Brunswick gets a bad rap, going by many tests some modern gun authors have done, the tests the Brit Ordnance Board did when testing the P51 and P53 against the Brunswick were apparently skewered against it, but I think the "belted-ball" idea was a bit, out there to begin with. Not the greatest design Britain produced…

The grand total of one I've handled, (a second type), it's weight and balance didn't feel that different to me than other comparable arms.

FWIW I weighed my two CS Brunswicks. They weigh approximately 9.25 and 9.4lbs each. Two M1841s weigh approximately 9.4 and 9.6lbs. A handful of type 3 P1853s average about 8.8lbs.
The scale was a cheap kitchen type, and the guns weren't perfectly balanced, so the weights are undoubtedly off slightly.

IMO the Brunswick is heavy in the buttstock, but is more comfortable than a US M1841 when it comes to pointing and aiming.
Hard to beat the M1841 to me, but I'm biased lol. Along with this thread's discovery, has more evidence come to light on CS usage?
 
FWIW I weighed my two CS Brunswicks. They weigh approximately 9.25 and 9.4lbs each. Two M1841s weigh approximately 9.4 and 9.6lbs. A handful of type 3 P1853s average about 8.8lbs.
The scale was a cheap kitchen type, and the guns weren't perfectly balanced, so the weights are undoubtedly off slightly.

IMO the Brunswick is heavy in the buttstock, but is more comfortable than a US M1841 when it comes to pointing and aiming.
That may well be true, it's as likely as not perception on my part as I'm rather biased towards the M1841.
 
As both reports have the header, 'Received', I guess this is new gear. Was this for fresh conscripts or replacing older weapons and gear?
....I'll also point out in the first document, 157 cartridge boxes, 15 cartridge box belts. Rebs in this outfit wore their cartridge box on the waist belt. Simply an observation
 
At the point of its introduction the 2 groove with belted ball was at the cutting edge of military rifle design. It impressed the Russian army enough for them to make it their standard specialist rifle and have them made in Belgium as direct copies. A few years later French research produced assorted expanding bullet methods which eased loading but the Brunswick remained in Indian army front line service into the 1870s and production resumed after the Pattern 1853 was introduced in order to maintain stocks for Indian regiments who were still using the Brunswick. So clearly not a bad rifle at all. Popular with the Indian troops who were trained and experienced professionals.

Looking at it as a 2 groove rifle rather than as a belted ball one, it was trialled with a variety of winged conical bullets and the Russians added new longer range sights and replaced the belted ball with a winged conical (Kulikov) which served them in Crimea with their Finnish marksmen.

Equally, as a 2 groove rifle it could take Pattern 1851 'Minié' bullets and were trialled with them in Britain and indeed could accept any expanding bullet capable of being used for a 0,690" bore rifle musket. So it had assorted possibilities to stand with period rifle muskets. As to what was actually stuffed down the pipe in America to fly out with a bang I leave to the cognoscenti of the American Difference of Opinion War, but would be fascinated to know myself.

Overall a short step behind a period modern rifle musket certainly but quite serviceable, and Barnetts sent them with Pattern 1853 type sights in place of the standard fixed or two position ones. The Good Lord alone knows what bullet they were set for, if for anything in particular at all. Given the typical actually used ranges by the ill trained American troops and officers I should prefer to give them the original belted ball which would have the flattest trajectory up to 300 yards.

Given good ammunition I should not feel aggrieved were I issued one in good order.
 
At the point of its introduction the 2 groove with belted ball was at the cutting edge of military rifle design. It impressed the Russian army enough for them to make it their standard specialist rifle and have them made in Belgium as direct copies. A few years later French research produced assorted expanding bullet methods which eased loading but the Brunswick remained in Indian army front line service into the 1870s and production resumed after the Pattern 1853 was introduced in order to maintain stocks for Indian regiments who were still using the Brunswick. So clearly not a bad rifle at all. Popular with the Indian troops who were trained and experienced professionals.

Looking at it as a 2 groove rifle rather than as a belted ball one, it was trialled with a variety of winged conical bullets and the Russians added new longer range sights and replaced the belted ball with a winged conical (Kulikov) which served them in Crimea with their Finnish marksmen.

Equally, as a 2 groove rifle it could take Pattern 1851 'Minié' bullets and were trialled with them in Britain and indeed could accept any expanding bullet capable of being used for a 0,690" bore rifle musket. So it had assorted possibilities to stand with period rifle muskets. As to what was actually stuffed down the pipe in America to fly out with a bang I leave to the cognoscenti of the American Difference of Opinion War, but would be fascinated to know myself.

Overall a short step behind a period modern rifle musket certainly but quite serviceable, and Barnetts sent them with Pattern 1853 type sights in place of the standard fixed or two position ones. The Good Lord alone knows what bullet they were set for, if for anything in particular at all. Given the typical actually used ranges by the ill trained American troops and officers I should prefer to give them the original belted ball which would have the flattest trajectory up to 300 yards.

Given good ammunition I should not feel aggrieved were I issued one in good order.

Based on excavated examples it seems that the Confederates used a variety of ammunition with their Brunswicks, including a Russian style grooved conical, and slab sided "Pritchett" style balls, along with belted round balls, which are, from what I have seen, the most commonly recovered of the normal .704 caliber rounds.
In addition to ex-British Brunswicks, Barnett also sold a number of .63 caliber Volunteer pattern guns to the Confederates. The .63 caliber ammunition is predominantly Pritchett type, and it's worth noting that surviving .63 caliber guns don't have two-groove rifling.

As you note, the Russians seem to have had good performance from their upgraded M1843 Luttich Carbines. However, I think the Confederate Ordnance Department probably squandered any improvements afforded by the long range p1856 rear sights by mixing ammunition types. But that is pretty well par for the course for foreign ordnance in the Civil War.

I don't plan on shooting mine, but it would be interested to know if switching to conical ammunition in the Brunswick caused a decrease in accuracy like the US faced with .54 caliber M1841 rifles when switching to Burton balls due to the different performance of elongated ammunition in a gun built for roundballs.
 
As both reports have the header, 'Received', I guess this is new gear. Was this for fresh conscripts or replacing older weapons and gear?
....I'll also point out in the first document, 157 cartridge boxes, 15 cartridge box belts. Rebs in this outfit wore their cartridge box on the waist belt. Simply an observation

For the 27th Louisiana this is their initial outfitting, having just been raised in the early spring of 1862. I have noticed that in some Louisiana units wearing the cartridge box on the waist belt is the norm.
 
I just recalled something that might be helpful to the discussion, the Vicksburg Civil War Museum, (not the courthouse museum, the awesome private one), has a P1853 provenanced to the 27th Louisiana during the Vicksburg Campaign.

Figure that may help any speculation on them.
 
I don't plan on shooting mine, but it would be interested to know if switching to conical ammunition in the Brunswick caused a decrease in accuracy like the US faced with .54 caliber M1841 rifles when switching to Burton balls due to the different performance of elongated ammunition in a gun built for roundballs.
Based upon the work of the Russians the twist is adequate for the task and British tests support that, but the benefit came in reaching out to longer ranges where the draggy belted ball ran out of puff. However, within the 300 normal sighted range the belted ball was lighter and initially faster. Thus has a flatter trajectory initially than the heavy big bore assorted conicals.

The Russian answer was to give them new longer sights to cope with the new longer and extremely arching trajectory. All right for their professional skilled Finns but useless to the average period recruit. That same sight was the one required by the Russians to be fitted to the rifles Samuel Colt was contracted to supply to the Russians. Often called the 'Colt' sight but it is actually the 'Luttich' sight (being the Russian name for Liege where PJ Malherbe & Cie made their Brunswick copies) although I believe the new sight for the Brunswicks were made in Russia.
http://littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies ma/a malherbe gb.htm

 

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