Correspondence at Fort Sumter

[58th Virginia]

Trying this again in the way of a another member's suggestion. As mentioned, in different conversations here on the board, I have posted now and then about the very polite and respectful communications of the South trying to get the North to peacefully leave Fort Sumter. Along with the patience they had in waiting for it to be accomplished. I was really impressed by this when I first read them a few years ago and up till recently, I have been just going by memory. It took a while, but I did find a copy of it in a few different places. Here is one of them:

Official Record

Gen. P. G. T. Beauregard to Maj. Robert Anderson

The following series of communiques document Gen. Beauregard's formal demands for the surrender of Fort Sumter; and Maj. Anderson's replies.

April 11, 1861

HEADQUARTERS PROVISIONAL ARMY, C.S.A.,

SIR: The Government of the Confederate States has hitherto forborne from any hostile demonstration against Fort Sumter, in the hope that the Government of the United States, with a view to the amicable adjustment of all questions between the two Governments, and to avert the calamities of war, would voluntarily evacuate it.

There was reason at one time to believe that such would be the course pursued by the Government of the United States, and under that impression my Government has refrained from making any demand for the surrender of the fort. But the Confederate States can no longer delay assuming actual possession of a fortification commanding the entrance of one of their harbors, and necessary to its defense and security.

I am ordered by the Government of the Confederate States to demand the evacuation of Fort Sumter. My aides, Colonel Chestnut and Captain Lee, are authorized to make such demand of you. All proper facilities will be afforded for the removal of yourself and command, together with company arms and property, and all private property, to any post in the United States which you may select. The flag which you have upheld so long and with so much fortitude, under the most trying circumstances, may be saluted by you on taking it down.

Colonel Chestnut and Captain Lee will, for a reasonable time, await your answer.

I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant

G. T. BEAUREGARD
Brigadier-General, Commanding.



FORT SUMTER, S.C.,

GENERAL: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your communication demanding the evacuation of this fort, and to say, in reply thereto, that it is a demand with which I regret that my sense of honor, and of my obligations to my Government, prevent my compliance. Thanking you for the fair, manly, and courteous terms proposed, and for the high compliment paid me,

I am, general, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

ROBERT ANDERSON
Major, First Artillery, Commanding.



HEADQUARTERS PROVISIONAL ARMY, C.S.A.,

MAJOR: In consequence of the verbal observation made by you to my aides, Messrs. Chestnut and Lee, in relation to the condition of your supplies, and that you would in a few days be starved out if our guns did not batter you to pieces, or words to that effect, and desiring no useless effusion of blood, I communicated both the verbal observations and your written answer to my communications to my Government.

If you will state the time at which you will evacuate Fort Sumter, and agree that in the mean time you will not use your guns against us unless ours shall be employed against Fort Sumter, we will abstain from opening fire upon you. Colonel Chestnut and Captain Lee are authorized by me to enter such an agreement with you. You are, therefore, requested to communicate to them an open answer

I remain, major, very respectfully, your obedient servant

G. T. BEAUREGARD
Brigadier-General, Commanding.

April 12, 1861

FORT SUMTER, S.C.,

GENERAL: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt by Colonel Chestnut of your second communication of the 11th instant, and to state in reply that, cordially uniting with you in the desire to avoid the useless effusion of blood, I will, if provided with the proper and necessary means of transportation, evacuate Fort Sumter by noon on the 15th instant, and that I will not in the mean time open my fires upon your forces unless compelled to do so by some hostile act against this fort or the flag of my Government by the forces under your command, or by some portion of them, or by the perpetration of some act showing a hostile intention on your part against this fort or the flag it bears, should I not receive prior to that time controlling instructions from my Government or additional supplies.

I am, general, very respectfully, your obedient servant

ROBERT ANDERSON
Major, First Artillery, Commanding.



April 12, 1861 -- 3.20 a.m.

FORT SUMTER, S.C.,

SIR: By authority of Brigadier-General Beauregard, commanding the Provisional Forces of the Confederate States, we have the honor to notify you that he will open the fire of his batteries on Fort Sumter in one hour from this time.

We have the honor to be, very respectfully, your obedient servants,

JAMES CHESTNUT, Jr.
Aide-de-Camp

STEPHEN D. LEE
Aide-de-Camp

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/gen-p-g-t-beauregard-maj-robert-anderson

 

[jgoodguy]

By what measure of politeness is the threat of killing and destruction "polite and respectful communications".

I'd prefer an insulting, impolite and disrespectful South that remained in the union and avoided 3/4 millions of deaths.

 

[jgoodguy]

I would like to see something from a period etiquette publication that suggests threats are polite, also.

Dueling, common in the antebellum South, had an etiquette and the conversation followed some form of formalized language, but is threatening to kill someone polite?

 

[thomas aagaard]

That is general Beauregard suing polite language... as was common during the is period. If you read the communication between Lee and Grant you find similar polite language.

Also the letters prove to the world that the CSA government wanted war... to bring in Virginia and the rest of the slave states. Anderson clearly tell that he will evacuate the fort on the 15th if not resupplied.

 

[58th Virginia]

By what measure of politeness is the threat of killing and destruction "polite and respectful communications".

You do understand that sometimes there is just "tough talk".

I'd prefer an insulting, impolite and disrespectful South that remained in the union and avoided 3/4 millions of deaths.

The main reason that there were "3/4 millions of deaths" was because of Lincoln and the Republican Congress decision to invade Virginia.

 

[58th Virginia]

but is threatening to kill someone polite?

You are missing my point. The politeness was in the way that they were asking them to leave.

 

[thomas aagaard]

On the 12th april Virginia was still a part of the union... making that claim pure Hogwash.

The war started when the CSA batteries opened fire on Sumter...
despite Anderson being willing to leave the fort on the 15th...

Then some month later a federal army did move into Virginia to suppress an insurrection,



edit: typos.

 

[58th Virginia]

That is general Beauregard suing polite language... as was common during the is period. If you read the communication between Lee and Grant you find similar polite language.

Also the letters prove to the world that the CSA government wanted war... to bring in Virginia and the rest of the slave states. Anderson clearly tell that he will evacuate the fort on the 15th if not resupplied.

Well all due respect, I thought you weren't going to respond to my posts anymore.

Remember a week or two ago?

 

[jgoodguy]

You are missing my point. The politeness was in the way that they were asking them to leave.

I disagree. No degree of etiquette makes treats polite.

You do understand that sometimes there is just "tough talk".

Is "tough talk" polite if written by Confederates?

The main reason that there were "3/4 millions of deaths" was because of Lincoln and the Republican Congress decision to invade Virginia.

Is your opinion if a foreign country attacks the US, then any resulting destruction is the US's fault?

 

[jgoodguy]

Well all due respect, I thought you weren't going to respond to my posts anymore.

Remember a week or two ago?

Please stick to the topic and don't worry about other members motives or inconstancy.

 

[58th Virginia]

Is your opinion if a foreign country attacks the US, then any resulting destruction is the US's fault?

And there's where we really dis-agree.

Not accepting the Secession.

 

[thomas aagaard]

When you are posting hogwash, someone got to tell you...

Otherwise some poor person might drop by the forum in search for information and get the idea that what you right make any sort of historical sense... and that it is not just some lost cause mythology where water is dry and you drink sand...
And historical facts (like when something happened) is irrelevant.


The south stated the war by firing on Sumter. That set a long chain of events in motion... that a few month later resulted in federal tropes moving into Virginia.

For the very obvious reason, that it happened month later, this action on the part of the federal governed can in no way be the cause of war... It was a result of the war.

And your insistence that it was, make no logical sense at all.

 

[jgoodguy]

And there's where we really dis-agree.

Not accepting the Secession.

How can we disagree on the facts?
The CSA considered itself a foreign country.
The CSA attacked the US-actually multiple times, Fort Sumter was just the last one before formal hostilities took place.

Acceptance of secession had nothing to do with it.

 

[58th Virginia]

How can we disagree on the facts?
The CSA considered itself a foreign country.
The CSA attacked the US-actually multiple times, Fort Sumter was just the last one before formal hostilities took place.

Acceptance of secession had nothing to do with it.

Noted.

The CSA attacked the US-actually multiple times, Fort Sumter was just the last one before formal hostilities took place.

Those small instances were minor in comparison to the big invasion by the Union into Virginia.

But anyway, I was supposed to post this last night, but ran out of time. I might be able to check in here and there during the day, but for now it is back to work.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

I am quite confident that if one were to review the diplomatic correspondence that was exchanged between the U.S. and the Empire of Japan before Pearl Harbor, you would find that language to be similarly "polite" and respectful. It should also be noted that Anderson and Beauregard had a previous relationship at West Point in the mode of instructor to pupil.

Attempting to convince someone of the rightness of your position is rarely accomplished by referring to someone as a dirty so and so. One can only imagine what the exchange would have been like if Wigfall had been in charge.

 

[jgoodguy]

Noted.



Those small instances were minor in comparison to the big invasion by the Union into Virginia.

But anyway, I was supposed to post this last night, but ran out of time. I might be able to check in here and there during the day, but for now it is back to work.

Is your contention that if a foreign country attacks the US then all resulting damage is the fault of the US?

 

[jgoodguy]

I am quite confident that if one were to review the diplomatic correspondence that was exchanged between the U.S. and the Empire of Japan before Pearl Harbor, you would find that language to be similarly "polite" and respectful. It should also be noted that Anderson and Beauregard had a previous relationship at West Point in the mode of instructor to pupil.

Attempting to convince someone of the rightness of your position is rarely accomplished by referring to someone as a dirty so and so. One can only imagine what the exchange would have been like if Wigfall had been in charge.

Most ultimatums are polite in language, but not in intent.

 

[Burning Billy]

The main reason that there were "3/4 millions of deaths" was because of Lincoln and the Republican Congress decision to invade Virginia.

A country can't invade itself.

 

[jgoodguy]

A country can't invade itself.

Brings up the question of if any other "States" were "invaded".

 

[Malingerer]

Most ultimatums are polite in language, but not in intent.

Ummmmm...you have apparently not heard any of my wife's ultimatums - they're the exact opposite of that.