Corporal Julius Franklin Howell.

[Waterloo50]

Apologies if this recording/vid has been posted before, I did a CWT search for Julias Franklin Howell but there were no results.


Anyhow, I found this interesting and I thought that others may also appreciate this gentleman's story. I do have one question though about his accent, I understand that he has a strong Southern dialect but I'm sure that I can detect a strong English pronunciation in the way that he talks, looking through some of the YouTube comments it seems that People feel that his accent is very old school with a hint of English, apparently the way in which he talks is a thing of the past...is that correct?

Here's the vid.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

Apologies if this recording/vid has been posted before, I did a CWT search for Julias Franklin Howell but there were no results.


Anyhow, I found this interesting and I thought that others may also appreciate this gentleman's story. I do have one question though about his accent, I understand that he has a strong Southern dialect but I'm sure that I can detect a strong English pronunciation in the way that he talks, looking through some of the YouTube comments it seems that People feel that his accent is very old school with a hint of English, apparently the way in which he talks is a thing of the past...is that correct?

Here's the vid.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/reluctant-rebs-homegrown-yanks-east-tennesseans-in-the-civil-war.129343/page-7#post-1900892

 

[Waterloo50]

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/reluctant-rebs-homegrown-yanks-east-tennesseans-in-the-civil-war.129343/page-7#post-1900892

Oh dear, I'm late to the party again, never mind, hopefully someone will be able to answer my question about his accent.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

hopefully someone will be able to answer my question about his accent

John B. Salling (1846-1959) - Find A Grave...

General John Salling May 15, 1846 Mar 15, 1959 Son of Caroline Matilda Salling, Co D 25 Regt CSA John Salling John Salling was born May 15, 1846 in Scott Co., VA, one of four children born to Caroline Matilda Salling at the age of 14 and a slave on her grandmother's (Matilda...

www.findagrave.com

Not sure if this helps. Salling lived in S.W. Virginia. Howell was from the Richmond area I believe. Looking now at the definition of "Chaucerian lilt" I don't suppose it has anything to do with their accent..........sorry.

 

[Waterloo50]

John B. Salling (1846-1959) - Find A Grave...

General John Salling May 15, 1846 Mar 15, 1959 Son of Caroline Matilda Salling, Co D 25 Regt CSA John Salling John Salling was born May 15, 1846 in Scott Co., VA, one of four children born to Caroline Matilda Salling at the age of 14 and a slave on her grandmother's (Matilda...

www.findagrave.com

Not sure if this helps. Salling lived in S.W. Virginia. Howell was from the Richmond area I believe. Looking now at the definition of "Chaucerian lilt" I don't suppose it has anything to do with their accent..........sorry.

Thank you.

I think that I'll have to look into the origins of his family. The reason that I'm intrigued by his accent is that I can definitely detect an 'upper class' British accent. His pronunciation of certain words most definitely ties in with old school English. If for example he didn't have the southern twang, I'd swear that I was listening to somebody from the English Home Counties, that would place his family in Surrey or South London.

 

[Waterloo50]

I have read and am currently re-reading a thesis called 'Imagined Families: Anglo-American Kinship and the Formation of Southern Identity, 1830-1890', without going into any great depth, this particular thesis examines the supposed impact that Anglo-American kinship had on the formation of Southern identity. Its suggested that the South used the idea of Anglo-American identity to justify Southern nationalism, the author also discusses the attempts that were made to promote a flawless yet fake British identity.

I can't help but feel that the premise that southern gentry created tenuous links to England in order to support the idea of racial superiority and nationalism is way to simplistic and probably wrong.

wouldn't it make more sense to just say that those whom had strong English ties simply reflected English societal norms/ values and traditions. That's why I'm interested in Julias Franklin Howell and any potential English connection that he may have had, I honestly think that had Howell been living in England he would have slotted into the British aristocracy without there being any notable difference in attitudes or values.

I hope that makes sense, I'm obviously still trying to get my head around the whole issue of Southern identity.

 

[CowCavalry]

I read here on some thread or another, that a foreign observer (possibly Freemantle?) remarked that the a large portion of the officer class of the ANV had what could be described as an "English" accent.

 

[Dixie Boy]

Apologies if this recording/vid has been posted before, I did a CWT search for Julias Franklin Howell but there were no results.


Anyhow, I found this interesting and I thought that others may also appreciate this gentleman's story. I do have one question though about his accent, I understand that he has a strong Southern dialect but I'm sure that I can detect a strong English pronunciation in the way that he talks, looking through some of the YouTube comments it seems that People feel that his accent is very old school with a hint of English, apparently the way in which he talks is a thing of the past...is that correct?

Here's the vid.

I see his rank looks like major general rather than a corporal, so which was he ?

 

[Waterloo50]

I see his rank looks like major general rather than a corporal, so which was he ?

I think that he during the war he was a corporal and after the war he was later given an honorary rank of Major General.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I can't help but feel that the premise that southern gentry created tenuous links to England in order to support the idea of racial superiority and nationalism is way to simplistic and probably wrong.

Yes, and it's such a loaded topic it's difficult to address BUT I'm glad a Brit brought it up. The thing is, in order to DO what's being claimed an entire countryside would have had to cultivate a British accent- and you KNOW how stupid we sound when we try. Having lived there, it was flatly fascinating how MANY there are and how well defined by both region and ok, education etc. ( ' by etc I of course mean posh, public school, or not ).

IMO, it's just not possible. This man's accent you've pegged to a region- matter of inflection, etc. 30 years ago I could still do that, pretty good still with Devon, Somerset and well, some of the accents where apparently you're forbidden to move one's lower jaw? Anyway, no one could cultivate that and more, convince an entire population to do it. I actually picked up an accent just through immersion and sounded weird as bejammers for a few years- American slash I-Couldn't-Help-It. Had people say " Where are you FROM? " when I got back here. But. like I said- you just can't fake it- some can, but like I said, how stupid do we sound when we try?

We here in the states forget awfully swiftly. Listen to some of the early news broadcasts. Our basic accent and enunciation across the board was incredibly different anyway. Who knows what pockets of the country retained accents from those who settled widely? You should hear the real PA Dutch accent. It's a ' low ' German accent- after ancestors settled here 2 and 3 hundred years ago.

 

[Waterloo50]

Yes, and it's such a loaded topic it's difficult to address BUT I'm glad a Brit brought it up. The thing is, in order to DO what's being claimed an entire countryside would have had to cultivate a British accent- and you KNOW how stupid we sound when we try. Having lived there, it was flatly fascinating how MANY there are and how well defined by both region and ok, education etc. ( ' by etc I of course mean posh, public school, or not ).

IMO, it's just not possible. This man's accent you've pegged to a region- matter of inflection, etc. 30 years ago I could still do that, pretty good still with Devon, Somerset and well, some of the accents where apparently you're forbidden to move one's lower jaw? Anyway, no one could cultivate that and more, convince an entire population to do it. I actually picked up an accent just through immersion and sounded weird as bejammers for a few years- American slash I-Couldn't-Help-It. Had people say " Where are you FROM? " when I got back here. But. like I said- you just can't fake it- some can, but like I said, how stupid do we sound when we try?

We here in the states forget awfully swiftly. Listen to some of the early news broadcasts. Our basic accent and enunciation across the board was incredibly different anyway. Who knows what pockets of the country retained accents from those who settled widely? You should hear the real PA Dutch accent. It's a ' low ' German accent- after ancestors settled here 2 and 3 hundred years ago.

Considering that you'd lived down here in the UK West Country then these fellow Americans should sound pretty familiar. I'd a actually go as far as to say that these people sound exactly the same as early Cornish/Devon. Believe it or not, their accent is clear as day to me, I can understand everything that they say.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Believe it or not, their accent is clear as day to me

Goodness- yep. Absolutely believe it. Love this stuff! Devon always came across as ' softer ' ( for want of a better word? ) than Somerset, and like this. Considering the actual area involved isn't terribly large these differences always fascinated me! HAS anyone ever done a study, as in who-settled-where and from what county over there, as a base for all this? Like I said, I've lost a really good ear but can still pick up basic stuff.

I'd have to dig around ( then see if it's ok to use it ) for an example of our Scranton, Pennsylvania accent. Lived around there in high school and it wasn't until living across The Pond things started to sound familiar. I'll get argued with but BOY are there a ton of Irish inflections- unsurprising given heavy Irish immigration there. It's just remarkable, especially listening to the older generations.

This is off topic a little, has to do with losing one's ' ear '. Do you remember " Flambards ", BBC show about a decaying manor house and the family who lived there? Also decaying- around WWI. Awfully good show, just loved it albeit haunting and dark in spots. Our Masterpiece Theater tried airing it some years ago and I was crushed- couldn't understand a word anyone said. It's the swiftly speaking upper crusty accent, the real one, not the one they have to film for we Yanks.

 

[Waterloo50]

Goodness- yep. Absolutely believe it. Love this stuff! Devon always came across as ' softer ' ( for want of a better word? ) than Somerset, and like this. Considering the actual area involved isn't terribly large these differences always fascinated me! HAS anyone ever done a study, as in who-settled-where and from what county over there, as a base for all this? Like I said, I've lost a really good ear but can still pick up basic stuff.

I'd have to dig around ( then see if it's ok to use it ) for an example of our Scranton, Pennsylvania accent. Lived around there in high school and it wasn't until living across The Pond things started to sound familiar. I'll get argued with but BOY are there a ton of Irish inflections- unsurprising given heavy Irish immigration there. It's just remarkable, especially listening to the older generations.

This is off topic a little, has to do with losing one's ' ear '. Do you remember " Flambards ", BBC show about a decaying manor house and the family who lived there? Also decaying- around WWI. Awfully good show, just loved it albeit haunting and dark in spots. Our Masterpiece Theater tried airing it some years ago and I was crushed- couldn't understand a word anyone said. It's the swiftly speaking upper crusty accent, the real one, not the one they have to film for we Yanks.

I remember Flambards very well, it was actually pretty good, you can still get the entire series on DVD from Amazon.
It is incredible given the size of Britain just how varied regional accents are. As you probably know, in the UK you'd only have to drive for an hour and if you stopped and talk to folk, you'd hear a noticeable change in regional dialect.

To hear a really posh English accent you'd have to visit somewhere like Surrey or South London, I think that I'm right in saying that Flambards was filmed in Yorkshire but the story was based in Essex, oddly enough, calling someone an Essex boy/girl is now seen as an insult, there's this idea (developed from reality TV) that people from Essex are as thick as two short planks.
Here's why....