Muzzleldrs Converting flint locks during the Civil War?

[Peter Stines]

The union didn't have the capacity to produce brass cartridges in any large number... so there where always a lack of them for the few units that did have Spencers.

I thought Spencer cases were copper ? There must not have been an extreme shortage for the Union as I see numerous cavalry units carrying them.

 

[thomas aagaard]

you might be right.
The point is that making the very simple paper cartridges used by the union could be done by children with poor quality paper.

Making "metal" cartridges, be that from copper or brass take mining of the metal and industrial machinery and skilled labor.
It is a much bigger and demanding process.

And by the end of the war the union was hard pressed to supply the units who did have firearms used metal cartridges. They never had the same reserves of cartridge that was the norm for other unites with firearms using the burton bullet in a simple paper cartridges.

There where simply no way they would have been able to keep the infantry supplied had they been armed on mass with Spencers.

 

[toot]

were guns that were in flint lock configuration left that way and issued and used in any battle?

 

[Rhea Cole]

were guns that were in flint lock configuration left that way and issued and used in any battle?

In the early months of the war, anything that looked like musket was dusted off & issued. In Tennessee, the Mill Creek Battlefield has recently become a National Park. The CSA regiments that fought in that early battle were armed with weapons that were moldering in state armories. The state militia had been moribund for decades. Tower of London muskets gathered after the Battle of New Orleans were among the antiques issued to the pre-secession TN State Army.

The Battle of Mill Creek occurred during a downpour. The flintlocks & wet powder combined to effetely disarm the Tennesseans. During their dash to the Tennessee River, men slammed the wretched muskets against trees, leaving them wrapped around the trunks.

CSA Cavalrymen were known to carry flintlock shotguns well into the war.

 

[PapaReb]

I personally am a flintlock fan. Though the flintlock does have some draw backs (wet weather primarily) it also has some advantages. If you're flint wears out you have a couple of options, you can re-knap the edge (not really that hard to do) or in the worst case you have a very good chance of finding a piece of chert or quartz that can be sharpened enough to throw sparks from your frizzen. I have read (sorry don't have the citation handy) that many of the trappers/mountain men much preferred the flintlock for that reason...them new fangled caps were hard to come by and if you lost your caps you were done shooting...you basically had a club. All that being said most of the men mustered in to service would have had little experience with flintlocks...but I would guess that there were some backwoodsmen that could really make their flinters talk.

Those unfortunates who began the war armed with worn out flintlocks from state armories were very happy to be able to ditch them for the newer percussion weapons...whether issued or a battlefield pick up.

 

[CowCavalry]

I am not sure how long any muzzleloading weapon using paper cartridges is going to remain serviceable in a downpour, I can't see a percussion action having that great of an advantage over a flintlock under those circumstances. That said, the house wins with like a 2-3% advantege in blackjack so.....

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I'd be interested in hearing from members who have carried both flintlocks and percussion cap weapons in wet weather and learn what they have found from experience.
I always liked Joe Bilby's book "Civil War Weapons" blend of historical records and the modern experience using these same models of weapons - one source of fact helps understand the other.
I'm going to start another thread on the question of whether soldiers covered the muzzles of their muskets in some way to keep moisture out.

 

[James Brenner]

were guns that were in flint lock configuration left that way and issued and used in any battle?

In October 1861, General Sherman (and Rosecrans afterwards) contracted with Miles Greenwood of Cincinnati for "rifling and percussioning" flintlock muskets seized in Kentucky. Whether or not these muskets were captured or just seized, is unknown.

For what it's worth, I have seen a rifled and sighted M1816 Greenwood musket dated 1820 (it has the distinctive Greenwood LR sight) that may be one of those muskets. The muzzle end of the barrel has been cut back about two inches with the mortise for the barrel band retaining spring and the entire upper band also moved backward. The inletting was professionally done which supports the newspaper account that Greenwood established a satellite operation in Louisville to repair and alter Kentucky muskets. I suspect that the muzzle had been damaged in some way, but the musket was sound overall. Rather than condemning the weapon, Greenwood "fixed" it. In August 1862, Ripley recommended to the SW payment of the contract.

 

[Rhea Cole]

I'd be interested in hearing from members who have carried both flintlocks and percussion cap weapons in wet weather and learn what they have found from experience.
I always liked Joe Bilby's book "Civil War Weapons" blend of historical records and the modern experience using these same models of weapons - one source of fact helps understand the other.
I'm going to start another thread on the question of whether soldiers covered the muzzles of their muskets in some way to keep moisture out.

A very experienced flintlock practitioner told me that keeping the powder dry was not the only challenge. During the cold mizzaly days we often have in TN, keeping the flint & frizzen dry enough to spark can be frustrating.

I called him & he told me a pretty good tale. He owns a farm where they have WWI & WWII tactical scenarios. He also has an interest in French & Indian/War of 1812 scenarios.

On one occasion, his highly accurate British Infantry bivouac was hit early in the morning by one of the springtime ice storms we get in TN. They awoke a world made up of gleaming crystal. Their stacked muskets were encased & the leather wrapping around the locks frozen in place.

The militia had slept under blankets snuggled up with their trusty long rifles. He said that the only way the Brown Bess,s could have been fired was to hold them over the roaring campfire to dry out... even the historical accuracy nut jobs in that group wouldn't go that far. Over at the militia camp, a "mental giant" decided to help the wet kindling get going by pouring powder from his horn directly into the smoldering sticks.

The resulting powder burns & surprisingly painful powder horn wounds signaled the end of a long awaited weekend scenario.

Makes me prod to be a red leg.