Confused and Concerned

I think you have to be constantly aware that all any source proves, primary or secondary, is that someone wrote the words on the page. Sources offer evidence, but battle reports can contain lies, books by respected experts can contain author confusion, error and bias, even gravestones sometimes have the wrong name on them. Much of the time there's no reason to question most sources, but if a dispute comes up, it's nice to know where the author got his information from and why he said what he did. And if someone on the forum knocks your source, you are perfectly within your rights to ask why they believe it's mistaken and why they think their source is better. There is no point at which you can rest and say "I know this." What you believe you know may change with new information. There's also no law that says that if someone here doesn't like your source, you have to accept his opinion once you know the reasons for it.

I'm currently pretty confident that I've found a case where family letters home during the war prove that the Combined Service Records, which most family researchers would consider a very reliable source, mistakenly combine the records of two cousins. I'm still gathering data. But whether I'm right or wrong does not depend on whether the National Archives are a respected source compared to me, an amateur researcher with less than a year's experience. What matters is the evidence supporting the point, not the person making it.
 
They can even be downloaded for free in various formats for Kindle and other readers from www.archive.org.
I lost an entire weekend after I found archive.org. Still get lost out there. Free is my favorite price. Just can't shell out 32 bucks every time a new interesting book comes along.
Almost didn't get thru high school because in order to look up something in Britannica (remember those?) I had to read everything that preceded it in the volume. Probably some DSM category for that problem.
 
For what it's worth, my approach was to start with the authors generally considered to be the most respected and accurate (e.g. McPherson, Foner, Donald) and then look through their bibliographies and pick out what appeared to be the more commonly-quoted sources and look those guys up and see what folks have to say about them. Then, I read the ones that seemed to be the most respected of that bunch (e.g. Stampp, Catton, Potter, Wiley).

Having done that, and repeating the process to a degree with the older bunch, I worked my way back to folks like Randall and Dunning. Along the way I found some outliers that were very good too as well as a few that weren't so good. All in all, though, I think I've avoided the really bad and most of the controversial and got a decent education from reliable sources.

I don't try to be an expert or to read every possible opinion; just want to have a good understanding of what happened and why and maybe learn a bit more detail about those aspects or topics that particularly interest me. If I really need a more expert opinion, well, folks who know at this site are pretty good at answering questions !

As to opinions, I've learned to mostly stay away from debating/arguing those (although, if asked directly, I'll often respond). I've come to the opinions I have after reading and thinking about it and am happy to let others embrace contrary ones. I am, though, always reading - here and other places - and have changed my mind a few times. I'm just not interested in debating an opinion as such, unfortunately, often seem to get more personal than scholarly.
 
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Hello Dear Sir, very good question. As you know there are many fantastic authors on Civil war subjects out there. One of my absolute favorites i thought id list is Dr. James "Bud" Robertson. He is a distinguished scholar on the CW and Alumni Distinguished Professor Emeritus at Virginia Tech. I've been a student of Jackson nearabout my whole life, and have read far too many books on him and the 2nd core as a whole than I care to admit. In the late 90's , Robertson wrote the greatest, most interesting factual book on Jackson Ive ever read amongst his other works. It's called:
Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend
You can get this hardcover book used on Amazon for a very reasonable price, otherwise you pay $30 - $60. A few others he wrote:
  • The Stonewall Brigade
  • General A.P. Hill
  • Soldiers, Blue and Gray
  • Civil War! America Becomes One Nation
 
Hello Dear Sir, very good question. As you know there are many fantastic authors on Civil war subjects out there. One of my absolute favorites i thought id list is Dr. James "Bud" Robertson. He is a distinguished scholar on the CW and Alumni Distinguished Professor Emeritus at Virginia Tech. I've been a student of Jackson nearabout my whole life, and have read far too many books on him and the 2nd core as a whole than I care to admit. In the late 90's , Robertson wrote the greatest, most interesting factual book on Jackson Ive ever read amongst his other works. It's called:
Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend
You can get this hardcover book used on Amazon for a very reasonable price, otherwise you pay $30 - $60. A few others he wrote:
  • The Stonewall Brigade
  • General A.P. Hill
  • Soldiers, Blue and Gray
  • Civil War! America Becomes One Nation

Welcome to the forum. I predict you and I will not agree on much, but at least we can start off with definite agreement about Dr. Bud.

Bo-NJA2CcAIQ01j.jpg
 
Hello Dear Sir, very good question. As you know there are many fantastic authors on Civil war subjects out there. One of my absolute favorites i thought id list is Dr. James "Bud" Robertson. He is a distinguished scholar on the CW and Alumni Distinguished Professor Emeritus at Virginia Tech. I've been a student of Jackson nearabout my whole life, and have read far too many books on him and the 2nd core as a whole than I care to admit. In the late 90's , Robertson wrote the greatest, most interesting factual book on Jackson Ive ever read amongst his other works. It's called:
Stonewall Jackson: The Man, The Soldier, The Legend
You can get this hardcover book used on Amazon for a very reasonable price, otherwise you pay $30 - $60. A few others he wrote:
  • The Stonewall Brigade
  • General A.P. Hill
  • Soldiers, Blue and Gray
  • Civil War! America Becomes One Nation
Thank you and of course I have just purchased Rebel Yell, Lol
 
I almost threw the book out the window a few times in the early going, but I ended up with a slightly positive view of the book.
Why didn't I know this. I have to admit I really liked Korda in the beginning but now nearing the end I feel like throwing it out the window. Glad to hear it will be vice versa this time.
 
You might try looking at the videos of some of the authors over in the U of ACW forum. Or searching them out yourself on youtube to see if they're what you'd consider sensible people. Or you might see their particular biases before you read their works.
Now that I have read several different books on the subject I am finding definite biases with some. This is good advice. Thank you.
 
Welcome to the forum. I predict you and I will not agree on much, but at least we can start off with definite agreement about Dr. Bud.

View attachment 69272
I don't no the guy on the left but I'm pretty sure I saw the guy on the right hugging old Peter at Gettysburg :D
 
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Thank you Cash but no it's Foote that came to mind. I loved his stories and hate that quoting him is so disrespected here. I don't even want to look back at the number of pages. I actually recognize your criticisms of Korda the more I read.

War Horse, I was separated from over $100 this morning by my local used book store manager. This (honorable and useful) criminal has a first addition copy of Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy for sale. His ask?

$850

I'll not suggest anyone go there, but you're speaking of a work that is a near piece of Americana. Enjoy it and don't worry about opinions posted on the internet. It's very valuable for what it contains. Cheers.
 
Just my opinion...observations, and comments:

All writers that are modern will write with what they have been able to access and research themselves. I chaff about authors writing on a subject that I know quite a lot about personally, that have zero experience in the total field of the subject where elements of it are not considered.

I prefer to read those written works by the veterans themselves, such as "Under Both Flags, etc." They will be opinionated of course, they may have many excuses for this or that, yet -- they were there, in those times and of a generation of a certain caliber that none after the 1915 would be able to copy.

As sons and or daughters wrote about their famous parents, it sheds much of the informational truth yet, much better than the modern. As grand-children write about their famous grandparents, it looses the luster as the 'story' is lost in bits and pieces. From there, unless there is some lasting proof of the mind, the opinion, the experience of that famous relative to the private--so much is lost.

With years worth of research that would be a life long work, due to the sheer volume of the information, includint the Official Records of the Rebellion's 128 volumes; the 128 volume suppliment to the O.R.s, the various publications such as the Southern Historical Society; Confederate Military History; News Paper publications; memoirs and the countless unpublished documents in the National Archives, people's private collections, etc. Yet, even so--imperfect due to the vast amount of destroyed documents for one cause or another.

Time consuming as it may be, it will be worthwhile to consider that any publication that has published proof of the root source will have a better chance to be on my book shelf. So much of the publications are recycled and just repeating from previous authors with a here and there new nugget of factual information.

For me, again -- my personal opinion on the matter -- The American Civil War still yields new evidence as the battlefields surrender from the soil, to this present day what happened 150 years ago. From the size of a button to the full sized sunken vessel, with all those in between.

Until such evidence reverses a per-conceived notion/opinion/perception/judgment that has been perpetuated since its beginnings, e.g. O.R.s, etc.; the unending quest for those who study and are students of the Civil War, is without bounds or without deadline.

It is folly to believe that any publication written without the interviewing of the original players, per se--of the American Civil War; to be without error or without prejudice/bias.

Those that specialize in any area of the Civil War we (in a general sense) study--may have passionate opinions with personal experiences and abilities lacking by others, to include authors--will be more critical on such. This s good, as it does no person keen on seeking the truth in all things about the American Civil War and or the individuals participating in such, good to accept anything thrown upon the table and unchallenged.

What I enjoy in reading, is the effort to include the elements of many parts of the total sum of facts, which are so important to understand why something happened the way it did, to why things failed and why things were successful. What was the weather, road conditions, condition of the troops, condition of the horses, the days of rest or lack thereof, the terrain to, from and at the battlefield, the level of the water, etc. It can than be seen that war was fought in various weather and conditions and, not always in good weather and good for troop performances. It brings more evidence of human judgment as to why things happened as they did--often the circumstances determined the battle, just as much as being on the offense or defense.

I can respect authors that express that they may know alot but, not know it all; more than someone who presents aires of a 'know it all.' There has been no human that I have met that knows it all. There will be always something new to learn--even a new way to look at something we've (in general terms) have looked at for years and entrenched opinions.

It is most difficult to shed all personal prejudices/bias. But, I urge readers to attempt to do so, for it is the sake of fairness and looking at evidence without jumping to conclusions, as to let the evidence speak for itself--sometimes leaving us (in a general sense) in a state of limbo or on a 'cliff hanger.' If it is possible, to have less anti-this or that feeling of either side of the War, to ask for opinions and when offered, even if its totally disagreeable, to attempt to see from their point of view and attempt to see what others see. This too, should be the approach with any books on the subject.

All have standards to which we (in a general sense) measure 'truth' -- some may be more lax than others yet, all are important to keep digging for 'truth.' Truth should be able to stand on its own, without any defense and no matter how much offense/attacks it suffers.

Just some thoughts, observations, comments and --opinions,
M. E. Wolf
 
And this is also a very key point. To this day, I still occasionally use Foote for research, when sometimes I recall that he addressed an issue that I'm interested in. But if I'm researching for any other purposes than a friendly discussion, I'll only use Foote as my starting point. Often he'll give me the information that I need so that I can Google the rest and find the primary sources that he didn't cite in the first place. Then I'll cite those primary sources in the debate, rather than citing Foote.

In fact, I use this approach with ALL authors, because no matter how acclaimed and respected the author might be, there will inevitably be somebody here who insists that he or she is biased. With so many primary sources available online these days, I think it's the best way to get a point across.

I was beginning to be worried because I had just purchased the third audiobook in Shelby Foote's trilogy and was all excited and then I heard how he wasn't the best source for historians due to his lack of footnotes! But I have to do what @brass napoleon does anyway -- whenever I heard a good quote, I'll scribble it down, then I have to google it and get the whole quote.

It's helpful to know when there's an author that needs a little fact-checking. Really, though, I try to check facts against each other, and it's very helpful when you can bounce several authors off each other to get a fuller picture of what may or may not have taken place.
 
War Horse, I was separated from over $100 this morning by my local used book store manager. This (honorable and useful) criminal has a first addition copy of Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy for sale. His ask?

$850

I'll not suggest anyone go there, but you're speaking of a work that is a near piece of Americana. Enjoy it and don't worry about opinions posted on the internet. It's very valuable for what it contains. Cheers.

I hit "like" on that though I don't like the price!

I managed to get Steyermark's Flora of Missouri for $30 because somebody who was selling it didn't understand what they were selling. Oh drat.
 
Just my opinion...observations, and comments:

All writers that are modern will write with what they have been able to access and research themselves. I chaff about authors writing on a subject that I know quite a lot about personally, that have zero experience in the total field of the subject where elements of it are not considered.

I prefer to read those written works by the veterans themselves, such as "Under Both Flags, etc." They will be opinionated of course, they may have many excuses for this or that, yet -- they were there, in those times and of a generation of a certain caliber that none after the 1915 would be able to copy.

As sons and or daughters wrote about their famous parents, it sheds much of the informational truth yet, much better than the modern. As grand-children write about their famous grandparents, it looses the luster as the 'story' is lost in bits and pieces. From there, unless there is some lasting proof of the mind, the opinion, the experience of that famous relative to the private--so much is lost.

With years worth of research that would be a life long work, due to the sheer volume of the information, includint the Official Records of the Rebellion's 128 volumes; the 128 volume suppliment to the O.R.s, the various publications such as the Southern Historical Society; Confederate Military History; News Paper publications; memoirs and the countless unpublished documents in the National Archives, people's private collections, etc. Yet, even so--imperfect due to the vast amount of destroyed documents for one cause or another.

Time consuming as it may be, it will be worthwhile to consider that any publication that has published proof of the root source will have a better chance to be on my book shelf. So much of the publications are recycled and just repeating from previous authors with a here and there new nugget of factual information.

For me, again -- my personal opinion on the matter -- The American Civil War still yields new evidence as the battlefields surrender from the soil, to this present day what happened 150 years ago. From the size of a button to the full sized sunken vessel, with all those in between.

Until such evidence reverses a per-conceived notion/opinion/perception/judgment that has been perpetuated since its beginnings, e.g. O.R.s, etc.; the unending quest for those who study and are students of the Civil War, is without bounds or without deadline.

It is folly to believe that any publication written without the interviewing of the original players, per se--of the American Civil War; to be without error or without prejudice/bias.

Those that specialize in any area of the Civil War we (in a general sense) study--may have passionate opinions with personal experiences and abilities lacking by others, to include authors--will be more critical on such. This s good, as it does no person keen on seeking the truth in all things about the American Civil War and or the individuals participating in such, good to accept anything thrown upon the table and unchallenged.

What I enjoy in reading, is the effort to include the elements of many parts of the total sum of facts, which are so important to understand why something happened the way it did, to why things failed and why things were successful. What was the weather, road conditions, condition of the troops, condition of the horses, the days of rest or lack thereof, the terrain to, from and at the battlefield, the level of the water, etc. It can than be seen that war was fought in various weather and conditions and, not always in good weather and good for troop performances. It brings more evidence of human judgment as to why things happened as they did--often the circumstances determined the battle, just as much as being on the offense or defense.

I can respect authors that express that they may know alot but, not know it all; more than someone who presents aires of a 'know it all.' There has been no human that I have met that knows it all. There will be always something new to learn--even a new way to look at something we've (in general terms) have looked at for years and entrenched opinions.

It is most difficult to shed all personal prejudices/bias. But, I urge readers to attempt to do so, for it is the sake of fairness and looking at evidence without jumping to conclusions, as to let the evidence speak for itself--sometimes leaving us (in a general sense) in a state of limbo or on a 'cliff hanger.' If it is possible, to have less anti-this or that feeling of either side of the War, to ask for opinions and when offered, even if its totally disagreeable, to attempt to see from their point of view and attempt to see what others see. This too, should be the approach with any books on the subject.

All have standards to which we (in a general sense) measure 'truth' -- some may be more lax than others yet, all are important to keep digging for 'truth.' Truth should be able to stand on its own, without any defense and no matter how much offense/attacks it suffers.

Just some thoughts, observations, comments and --opinions,
M. E. Wolf

Amen, sir.
 

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