Confederates needed shoes?

[Biscoitos]

Confederates needing shoes as one of the causes of Gettysburg?
Is this a myth or fact?

 

[Miles Krisman]

It was a fact that the Confederate Infantry had been on the march since June 3, 1863. They had covered over twenty miles on several days of the march. They had also fought some engagements along the way. The following is a glimpse of the Alabamians of General Robert Rodes' Division on June 15th. They would continue on for another two weeks, stopping in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, before being recalled to Gettysburg, where they would arrive on July 1st.

"As Rodes awaited orders, he allowed his men to rest until after 10:00 A.M. on the morning of June 15, 1863. The Division had marched hard over the last week, averaging twenty to twenty-five miles a day in oppressive heat. By late morning, the men were underway heading north on the Valley Pike and glad to have had the extra rest as they were to endure "the most trying march they had yet had." The roads were rocky, rough, and difficult for the two-thirds of the soldiers that had no shoes. Many attempted to follow the columns through nearby fields.[1] The Division arrived at the river across from Williamsport by dark. Rodes had the Brigades of Ramseur, Doles and Iverson cross the Potomac at once using Light's Ford just east of the pike. The brigades of O'Neal and Daniels remained on the Virginia side of the river to protect the crossing. O'Neal's Brigade awaited the arrival of the 6th Alabama Infantry, they having been left as guards at Martinsburg while the division Pioneers had torn up the railway. In obedience with orders, Rodes held his men at Williamsport for the next three days.[2] This was a welcomed respite for the men. General Rodes had become quite concerned about their physical condition since they had marched hard every day since departing Culpeper and he stated, "It was not until this day that the troops began to exhibit unmistakable signs of exhaustion, and the stragglers could be found in the line of march...A halt at Williamsport was absolutely necessary from the condition of the feet of the unshod men. Very many of these gallant fellows were still marching in ranks with feet bruised, bleeding, and swollen and withal so cheerfully, as to entice them to be called the heroes of the Pennsylvania Campaign. None but the best soldiers could have made such a march under the circumstances."[3] "

---

[1]"Warrior in Gray – General Robert Rodes of Lee's Army" by James K. Swisher, page 112
[2] O.R. Series I, Volume 27 (Part II), page 550
[3] "Warrior in Gray – General Robert Rodes of Lee's Army" by James K. Swisher, page 112

 

[hoosier]

Would they have liked to get some shoes? Yes. But that wouldn't have been a good enough reason to advance on Gettysburg unless there was good reason to believe that a great supply of shoes were available there.

Was there a great supply of shoes available at Gettysburg? No. No more than would have been normal for a town Gettysburg's size. If the rest of the Army of Northern Virginia was in the same shape as the two-thirds of Rodes' division who were marching shoeless, there surely wouldn't have been enough shoes to satisfy the needs of more than a very small fraction of them.

 

[Biscoitos]

Would they have liked to get some shoes? Yes. But that wouldn't have been a good enough reason to advance on Gettysburg unless there was good reason to believe that a great supply of shoes were available there.

Was there a great supply of shoes available at Gettysburg? No. No more than would have been normal for a town Gettysburg's size. If the rest of the Army of Northern Virginia was in the same shape as the two-thirds of Rodes' division who were marching shoeless, there surely wouldn't have been enough shoes to satisfy the needs of more than a very small fraction of them.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your info.

 

[Miles Krisman]

Confederates needing shoes as one of the causes of Gettysburg?
Is this a myth or fact?

On June 29, when Lee learned that the Army of the Potomac had crossed the Potomac River, he ordered a concentration of his forces around Cashtown, located at the eastern base of South Mountain and eight miles (13 km) west of Gettysburg. On June 30, while part of Hill's Corps was in Cashtown, one of Hill's brigades, North Carolinians under Brig. Gen. J. Johnston Pettigrew, ventured toward Gettysburg. In his memoirs, Maj. Gen. Henry Heth, Pettigrew's division commander, claimed that he sent Pettigrew to search for supplies in town—especially shoes.

Battle History | Gettysburg PA

Note: Much of the narrative below is sourced via WikipediaThe Battle of Gettysburg was fought July 1–3, 1863, in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, by Union and Confederate forces during the American Civil War. The battle involved the largest number of casualties of the entire war...

www.gettysburgpa.gov

 

[Biscoitos]

On June 29, when Lee learned that the Army of the Potomac had crossed the Potomac River, he ordered a concentration of his forces around Cashtown, located at the eastern base of South Mountain and eight miles (13 km) west of Gettysburg. On June 30, while part of Hill's Corps was in Cashtown, one of Hill's brigades, North Carolinians under Brig. Gen. J. Johnston Pettigrew, ventured toward Gettysburg. In his memoirs, Maj. Gen. Henry Heth, Pettigrew's division commander, claimed that he sent Pettigrew to search for supplies in town—especially shoes.

Battle History | Gettysburg PA

Note: Much of the narrative below is sourced via WikipediaThe Battle of Gettysburg was fought July 1–3, 1863, in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, by Union and Confederate forces during the American Civil War. The battle involved the largest number of casualties of the entire war...

www.gettysburgpa.gov

Thank you so much for the information.
I knew that I could count on you guys to tell me the facts.

 

[Merlin1066]

It is amazing to me that many so called "documentaries" promote this claim. I believed it for quite some time. Considering that 2 thirds of the southern army were without shoes but so were many of the northern army. Gettysburg at the time was a very small mainly farming town. How many pairs of shoes could there possibly have been? The myth kind of falls apart.... Great question by the way....

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

An army on the march and living off the land will be collecting a lot of stuff. I think the shoes story (true to a limited extent but over-emphasized) has stuck around because of the juxtaposition of the biggest battle on the American continents and a seemingly-trivial element. People like a good story.

 

[Biscoitos]

It is amazing to me that many so called "documentaries" promote this claim. I believed it for quite some time. Considering that 2 thirds of the southern army were without shoes but so were many of the northern army. Gettysburg at the time was a very small mainly farming town. How many pairs of shoes could there possibly have been? The myth kind of falls apart.... Great question by the way....

First, there's nothing better than getting to the "truth" or the "facts" about what has happened in the past.
Give it to me straight, whether sweet or bitter.

Second, actually I am more interested in the facts about the huge number of Confederates that were barefoot in the ANV at this time than I am in the availability of shoes in Gettysburg being a factor in when and where the battle takes place.

If the shoes in Gettysburg were a factor, that only confirms that there were, in fact, large numbers of barefoot Confederates and this was a serious state of affairs.
Thanks to Miles Krisman's excellent post at 9:11 Thursday, we know that shoes were a factor, no matter to what degree the story or myth has distorted the facts.

 

[Tom Elmore]

Most merchants in the path of the southern army had transported their goods elsewhere or hid them. In any event, Early's men had passed through Gettysburg on June 26 and would have confiscated any shoes and other useful items at that time - they afterward acquired 1,200 pair of shoes in York. As it turned out, the largest supply of shoes in Gettysburg were on the feet of the 26th Pennsylvania Emergency Infantry, many of whom surrendered and apparently had to yield up their footware. Maj. Gen. Ed Johnson evidently tapped into the latter supply and offered them to Walker's brigade, but the latter had developed an intense dislike of Johnson and many of the men refused to accept them out of spite, grumbling that it was an inhumane acquisition.

In any event, whatever shoes were obtained by the Confederates through confiscation, it was always in insufficient numbers to meet overall demand. Even many Federals in the Army of the Potomac, having broken their supply lines to chase after Lee, went shoeless for a time. For a few examples, see: https://civilwartalk.com/threads/barefoot-status-of-soldiers.178158/#post-2361106

 

[thomas aagaard]

In his memoirs, Maj. Gen. Henry Heth, Pettigrew's division commander, claimed that he sent Pettigrew to search for supplies in town—especially shoes.

he actually wrote that in his post campaign report:
"On the morning of June 30, I ordered Brigadier-General Pettigrew to take his brigade to Gettysburg, search the town for army supplies (shoes especially), and return the same day."

That makes it a lot more trustworthy that if it was just something he wrote decades later.

But it is important to note that this is about the movements on the 30th of June.

The move on the 1st is clearly about recon in force... that is finding out if there is anything "solid" behind the cavalry.
something Lee also write in his post campaign report.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

If the shoes in Gettysburg were a factor, that only confirms that there were, in fact, large numbers of barefoot Confederates and this was a serious state of affairs.

It doesn't necessarily follow that large numbers of Confederates were barefoot then. But they would be eventually if they didn't keep looking for more shoes. In a pre-mechanized army, shoes are a consumable resource.

(Idle side note... ACW infantry didn't have to worry about getting their "10,000 steps" in for the day. They'd likely cover that in about the first two hours of marching.)

 

[Biscoitos]

It doesn't necessarily follow that large numbers of Confederates were barefoot then. But they would be eventually if they didn't keep looking for more shoes. In a pre-mechanized army, shoes are a consumable resource.

(Idle side note... ACW infantry didn't have to worry about getting their "10,000 steps" in for the day. They'd likely cover that in about the first two hours of marching.)

You either did not read, or failed to comprehend, the 2 above posts by Miles Krisman. He documented that 2/3 of Rodes' Division were marching many days without shoes on the way north towards Gettysburg.

It DOES follow that large numbers of Confederates were barefoot THEN.

 

[tullock]

On June 29, when Lee learned that the Army of the Potomac had crossed the Potomac River, he ordered a concentration of his forces around Cashtown, located at the eastern base of South Mountain and eight miles (13 km) west of Gettysburg. On June 30, while part of Hill's Corps was in Cashtown, one of Hill's brigades, North Carolinians under Brig. Gen. J. Johnston Pettigrew, ventured toward Gettysburg. In his memoirs, Maj. Gen. Henry Heth, Pettigrew's division commander, claimed that he sent Pettigrew to search for supplies in town—especially shoes.

Battle History | Gettysburg PA

Note: Much of the narrative below is sourced via WikipediaThe Battle of Gettysburg was fought July 1–3, 1863, in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, by Union and Confederate forces during the American Civil War. The battle involved the largest number of casualties of the entire war...

www.gettysburgpa.gov

All invading armies throughout history have requisitioned/confiscated or stolen goods (clothing, shoes, food etc) when in an enemy's territory. It doesn't indicate that these items were needed, it was more a case of 'stocking up' on essentials for the future. To believe that two thirds of the ANV were shoeless before Gettysburg is baloney. The entire army was re-clothed and shod before the campaign and the supply trains held thousands of spare items. Pickett's Division was issued new uniforms from the supply trains only 2 days before the battle of Gettysburg to make room for wounded. The many photos of Confederate dead taken after the battle show 99.9% wearing military shoes.
A mid 19th century army just couldn't function if large swathes of its troops were barefooted.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

The Confederates, especially under Jackson, always needed shoes. This reflects issues with Richmond supplies and getting supplies out to men. It also reflects Jackson being one hard driving General that drove his men very hard, and Early too. We just don't talk about that much. If you are going to drive men hard and long, pretty constantly, and Richmond had supply issues, you are going to need shoes, among other things.

 

[Bill_S]

The quote below is taken from a letter by Major General Heth, written in June 1877, sent to the Philadelphia Times and the Southern Historical Society. Link below.

"Hearing that a supply of shoes was to be obtained in Gettysburg, eight miles distant from Cashtown, and greatly needing shoes for my men, I directed General Pettigrew to go to Gettysburg and get these supplies."

Bold attribute made by me: not in original text.

Southern Historical Society papers. v.4 1877.

I found Heth's letter and the link to the source while researching a similar issue, so thought I should pass it along.

Cheers

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

You either did not read, or failed to comprehend, the 2 above posts by Miles Krisman. He documented that 2/3 of Rodes' Division were marching many days without shoes on the way north towards Gettysburg.

It DOES follow that large numbers of Confederates were barefoot THEN.

Okay, no need to get nasty. It appeared to me that you were saying that the reason they were looking for shoes was that they had none, and I was pointing out that they would have been looking for shoes in any case. If you have some axe to grind, grind it somewhere else.

 

[Biscoitos]

Okay, no need to get nasty. It appeared to me that you were saying that the reason they were looking for shoes was that they had none, and I was pointing out that they would have been looking for shoes in any case. If you have some axe to grind, grind it somewhere else.

I was only trying to establish that a great many of the Confederates were barefoot at that time.

 

[Biscoitos]

The quote below is taken from a letter by Major General Heth, written in June 1877, sent to the Philadelphia Times and the Southern Historical Society. Link below.

"Hearing that a supply of shoes was to be obtained in Gettysburg, eight miles distant from Cashtown, and greatly needing shoes for my men, I directed General Pettigrew to go to Gettysburg and get these supplies."

Bold attribute made by me: not in original text.

Southern Historical Society papers. v.4 1877.

I found Heth's letter and the link to the source while researching a similar issue, so thought I should pass it along.

Cheers

Thanks

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I was only trying to establish that a great many of the Confederates were barefoot at that time.

And I'm pointing out that it did not matter. Even if every soldier in the ANV had a pair of shoes on his feet and a spare pair in his knapsack, they still would have taken them. That's foraging: removal of anything that can supply an army from the area, because then you can use the resource and your opponent or your opponent's civilian supporters cannot. And the ANV was doing exactly that in Pennsylvania; they were not specializing in footwear.

But more importantly, I fail to realize how you getting snippy about my failing to read or comprehend something supports your position. It's not polite conduct.