Confederate program set in Des Moines

[CMWinkler]

Confederate program set in Des Moines

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January 11, 2013 10:00 am
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DES MOINES --- The Iowa Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans, is sponsoring a free Lee-Jackson Program in conjunction with the Civil War displays from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. Jan. 19 at the State of Iowa Historical Society Museum.
Dave Jackson of North English will talk about the 1863 Tally War or Skunk River War in the fall of 1863 when Confederate sympathizers rioted against President Lincoln's military draft proclamation.
After lunch, Lt. Col. Harold Knudsen, of Moline, Ill., historian and author of a book on Confederate Gen. James Longstreet, will present a program on how the South might have secured its independence as a result of military action.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/co...cle_a5382128-e73a-562e-a62e-94ea8d382f68.html

 

[CSA Today]

Confederate program set in Des Moines

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January 11, 2013 10:00 am
(0) Comments
DES MOINES --- The Iowa Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans, is sponsoring a free Lee-Jackson Program in conjunction with the Civil War displays from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. Jan. 19 at the State of Iowa Historical Society Museum.
Dave Jackson of North English will talk about the 1863 Tally War or Skunk River War in the fall of 1863 when Confederate sympathizers rioted against President Lincoln's military draft proclamation.
After lunch, Lt. Col. Harold Knudsen, of Moline, Ill., historian and author of a book on Confederate Gen. James Longstreet, will present a program on how the South might have secured its independence as a result of military action.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/co...cle_a5382128-e73a-562e-a62e-94ea8d382f68.html

Many people don't realize how wide spread was the opposition to the Lincoln government's conscription laws.

"I salute the Confederate Flag with affection, reverence
and undying devotion to the Cause for which it stands."

The Sons of Confederate Veterans Salute
to the Confederate Flag

 

[johan_steele]

So severe that Iowa had no draftees, all voluteers, Iowa had filled it's quotas & no draft was needed there. There were no conscripts in US military service, draftees yes but no conscripts. There is a difference, one CS civilians were made well aware of when CS conscript parties descended on areas forcibly adding men to the ranks.

Many people don't realize how wide spread was the opposition to the Davis government's conscription laws. After the the CS adopted conscription the only way out of the CS Army was via the grave or serious enough wounding to be sent home a cripple. There was no 2 year enlistments, they were all for the duration... unless you were an officer or had twenty slaves and "needed" to go home and watch over them.

 

[Red Harvest]

So severe that Iowa had no draftees, all voluteers, Iowa had filled it's quotas & no draft was needed there. There were no conscripts in US military service, draftees yes but no conscripts. There is a difference, one CS civilians were made well aware of when CS conscript parties descended on areas forcibly adding men to the ranks.

Not only that, but Iowans enlisted in Missouri regiments because their own were full early in the war (same happened with Illinois men joining MO units.) Not that Missouri was short of volunteers, it had quite a few regiments before any could be officially formed...but these were too often 90 days units...a serious impediment to a then modern army.

The CSA was conscripting Union men in Missouri and Arkansas at gunpoint, not for local militia, but regular CSA units.

 

[CSA Today]

So severe that Iowa had no draftees, all voluteers, Iowa had filled it's quotas & no draft was needed there. There were no conscripts in US military service, draftees yes but no conscripts. There is a difference, one CS civilians were made well aware of when CS conscript parties descended on areas forcibly adding men to the ranks.

Many people don't realize how wide spread was the opposition to the Davis government's conscription laws. After the the CS adopted conscription the only way out of the CS Army was via the grave or serious enough wounding to be sent home a cripple. There was no 2 year enlistments, they were all for the duration... unless you were an officer or had twenty slaves and "needed" to go home and watch over them.

Don't you reckon this had something to do with the Federal armed forces being larger than the entire white male population of the Confederate States?

You don't think enforcement agents would have shown, up in the US, if conscripted men/ draftees didn't report to duty when ordered? This would have been true as late as the Viet Nam War.

Lieutenant Charles Brown (21st Michigan) describing a Confederate attack on his position at Bentonville: "stood as long as a man could stand and when that was no longer a possibility we run like the duce."
The Battle of Bentonville, 19-21 March 1865

 

[RobertP]

One says tomato, one says tomahto. A Draft and Conscription are essentially the same. The post-war US Draft was essentially Conscription in that the pool was enlarged enough to take virtually everyone, even Elvis Presley. It wasn't very popular either but then some of the commenters here are too young to know that. Israel today has what we would call Conscription, in that every able citizen over 18 is required to serve. It's not a dirty word, it serves their manpower needs. Same for the Confederacy.

 

[CSA Today]

Not only that, but Iowans enlisted in Missouri regiments because their own were full early in the war (same happened with Illinois men joining MO units.) Not that Missouri was short of volunteers, it had quite a few regiments before any could be officially formed...but these were too often 90 days units...a serious impediment to a then modern army.

The CSA was conscripting Union men in Missouri and Arkansas at gunpoint, not for local militia, but regular CSA units.

Interesting. What then is your opinion of draft resistance in Iowa –anti war sentiment?

Lieutenant Charles Brown (21st Michigan) describing a Confederate attack on his position at Bentonville: "stood as long as a man could stand and when that was no longer a possibility we run like the duce."
The Battle of Bentonville, 19-21 March 1865

 

[johan_steele]

Interesting. What then is your opinion of draft resistance in Iowa –anti war sentiment?

Lieutenant Charles Brown (21st Michigan) describing a Confederate attack on his position at Bentonville: "stood as long as a man could stand and when that was no longer a possibility we run like the duce."
The Battle of Bentonville, 19-21 March 1865

Might be similar to your opinion of conscription resistance in NC.

 

[johan_steele]

One says tomato, one says tomahto. A Draft and Conscription are essentially the same. The post-war US Draft was essentially Conscription in that the pool was enlarged enough to take virtually everyone, even Elvis Presley. It wasn't very popular either but then some of the commenters here are too young to know that. Israel today has what we would call Conscription, in that every able citizen over 18 is required to serve. It's not a dirty word, it serves their manpower needs. Same for the Confederacy.

No they are not "essentially the same" and you full well know it. As usual you're trying to put lipstick on the pig of the CS and call it a beauty queen.

A conscription, especially as practiced by the CS was a full on you aren't rich & powerful or friendly enough to the conscription officer to not be sent to the front. The CS was full on Conscription for anyone who could walk and didn't have the right connections to bravely man the homefront & slave patrols. A Draft is a lottery of sorts, if your number comes up you are expected to go. If it doesn't & you wish to volunteer you can or not as you choose.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Don't you reckon this had something to do with the Federal armed forces being larger than the entire white male population of the Confederate States?

Then the morale to that story is don't start wars with areas considerably larger than you are, and who have an actual manufacturing base and a diversified economy.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Interesting. What then is your opinion of draft resistance in Iowa –anti war sentiment?

The fact of the matter remains that the Union never had to depend on the draft or forcible extension on enlistments to keep its ranks filled. The Union states never had whole counties rise up in armed resistance to Washington, like areas of the South did against Richmond. The Union didn't have a president who threatened to call out troops and artillery against women protesting the cost of food. The Union population as a whole, start to finish, was far more devoted to their cause than the Confederate population as a whole was to their own.

 

[RobertP]

The fact of the matter remains that the Union never had to depend on the draft or forcible extension on enlistments to keep its ranks filled. The Union states never had whole counties rise up in armed resistance to Washington, like areas of the South did against Richmond. The Union didn't have a president who threatened to call out troops and artillery against women protesting the cost of food. The Union population as a whole, start to finish, was far more devoted to their cause than the Confederate population as a whole as to their own.

From CivilWarHome: "Under the Union draft act men faced the possibility of conscription in July 1863 and in Mar., July, and Dec. 1864. Draft riots ensued, notably in New York in 1863. Of the 249,259 18-to-35-year-old men whose names were drawn, only about 6% served, the rest paying commutation or hiring a substitute."

Sounds like upwards of 94% of Union Draftees/Conscripts weren't really down with the program.

 

[johan_steele]

Don't you reckon this had something to do with the Federal armed forces being larger than the entire white male population of the Confederate States?

You don't think enforcement agents would have shown, up in the US, if conscripted men/ draftees didn't report to duty when ordered? This would have been true as late as the Viet Nam War.

Lieutenant Charles Brown (21st Michigan) describing a Confederate attack on his position at Bentonville: "stood as long as a man could stand and when that was no longer a possibility we run like the duce."
The Battle of Bentonville, 19-21 March 1865

No I don't "reckon" it does. When it came time for a reckoning all the proslavery types did was whine & complain... their sycophants still are. The US did tap a manpool of 250,000 willing southerners. I know, I know 180,000 of them were black meaning in your mind they don't count. But they were every bit as southern as you & yours have ever been and likely gave as good if not better service.

Clearly you don't know or are unwilling to know the difference between a draft & conscription. You have to make the US as guilty & more so of anything done by the CS.

 

[RobertP]

No they are not "essentially the same" and you full well know it. As usual you're trying to put lipstick on the pig of the CS and call it a beauty queen.

A conscription, especially as practiced by the CS was a full on you aren't rich & powerful or friendly enough to the conscription officer to not be sent to the front. The CS was full on Conscription for anyone who could walk and didn't have the right connections to bravely man the homefront & slave patrols. A Draft is a lottery of sorts, if your number comes up you are expected to go. If it doesn't & you wish to volunteer you can or not as you choose.

Gee, JS, that sounds exactly like the local Draft Boards during the Vietnam era.

 

[RobertP]

No I don't "reckon" it does. When it came time for a reckoning all the proslavery types did was whine & complain... their sycophants still are. The US did tap a manpool of 250,000 willing southerners. I know, I know 180,000 of them were black meaning in your mind they don't count. But they were every bit as southern as you & yours have ever been and likely gave as good if not better service.

Clearly you don't know or are unwilling to know the difference between a draft & conscription. You have to make the US as guilty & more so of anything done by the CS.

You don't get it. A Conscription is a Draft will all numbers in the lottery selected. Israel has one and it's not evil. It all depends on manpower needs.

 

[Red Harvest]

From CivilWarHome: "Under the Union draft act men faced the possibility of conscription in July 1863 and in Mar., July, and Dec. 1864. Draft riots ensued, notably in New York in 1863. Of the 249,259 18-to-35-year-old men whose names were drawn, only about 6% served, the rest paying commutation or hiring a substitute."

Sounds like upwards of 94% of Union Draftees/Conscripts weren't really down with the program.

You just proved his point. 94% of those drafted didn't end up serving.

 

[RobertP]

You just proved his point. 94% of those drafted didn't end up serving.

Their substitutes certainly did. Those 94% represent the well heeled or well connected Yank who, as Dick Cheney said about his Vietnam deferments, had better things to do.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Sounds like upwards of 94% of Union Draftees/Conscripts weren't really down with the program.

And yet the Union had no problems keeping their ranks filled as I pointed out before. The Confederate soldier had no out. He was in until he was killed or injured too badly to serve any more or the war ended. The Union soldier had no such problem. Once his enlistment was up then he could go home. When the 3 year enlistments ran out in the summer of 1864 the Union army could have melted away to nothing. Yet it didn't. The overwhelming majority of soldiers re-upped to see the job through. They kept the faith to the very end. So at the end of the day, I'd have to say that while 94% of the eligible draftees weren't 'really down with the program', the overwhelming of those who enlisted certainly were. And they were the ones who whipped the rebels and preserved the country as our forefathers gave it to us.

 

[Red Harvest]

Their substitutes certainly did. Those 94% represent the well heeled or well connected Yank who, as Dick Cheney said about his Vietnam deferments, had better things to do.

The substitutes did so by choice--they were paid a bounty for it; while the drafted mostly didn't serve. Doesn't sound much like the Vietnam draft to me and certainly nothing like Confederate conscription...which was the point.

 

[johan_steele]

You don't get it. A Conscription is a Draft will all numbers in the lottery selected. Israel has one and it's not evil. It all depends on manpower needs.

I do get it, you & yours are the ones constantly bringing up the US Draft as evil while the CS Conscription was somehow all angelic. The US had several draft riots & the CS had whole swath's of the CS where a conscription officer could only go w/ an armed escort. IIRC three US states were completely exempted from the draft, Iowa being one, because they had already met their quotas. No CS state could say the same about conscription.