confederate officer jacket ?

18thmississippi

Corporal
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Location
confederacy
what would be the most common jacket for a NC colonel in the ANV to be wearing in 1864? To me it just seems unrealistic for a field commander to be wearing a frock coat or tunic.
 
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I'm not sure why you think an Infantry Colonel in the ANV in '64 wouldn't be wearing a frock coat, unless you have a letter or Regimental History that states otherwise.

This is a detail of captured Confederates said to be taken after the Battle of Five Forks in 1865, clearly showing one or two members of the rank and file wearing frock coats. If some Privates still wore frocks by then, I'd guess a well-heeled Colonel (unless he was promoted from the ranks) would be wearing a frock still.

april1prisoners.jpg


forks2.jpg


forks1.jpg


Pics and detail on this image from here:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com...n-Selections-from-Confederate-Prisoner-Groups
 
Si Klegg raises a very good point, right on the money as well.
One should remember that Confederate officers were just as fastidious as their Union counterparts in their dress, many were well to do with a big enough bill fold to afford a frock coat. That being said it should also be pointed out that in 1864 the C.S. Army changed the rules and for the first time allowed officers to outright draw an enlisted man's uniform in lieu of the previous rule mandating they provide their own uniform out of pocket. As the War dragged on officers on both sides learned that fancy double breasted frock coats and shell jackets with gold trim, (Union the gold border of their shoulder boards, Confederate, their Austrian knots on their sleeves), tended to get said officers shot. After said realizations by observant officers, more than a few started to take preventative measures, with some Union officers removing the gold border of their insignia, and wearing sack coats like the enlisted men, with some even wearing ad hoc collar insignia and Confederates wearing shell jacket with smaller less obvious collar insignia and no Austrian knots. Of course that doesn't mean all officers adopted those practices, more than few, indeed the majority clung to the fancy stuff.

If your dead set on wearing an enlisted man's shell jacket with officer insignia for 1864 I personally see no reason to say it didn't happen, especially since that was the year it became officially acceptable in the Confederate Army, just remember it was a Confederacy, and the native state was theoretically responsible for the equipage of troops from their state. But I would also like to point out that just because an officer was wearing a shell jacket, didn't mean he didn't have a frock coat, they would keep those for nice occasions, and as keepsakes after the war, (original C.S. officer frock always seem to outnumber surviving enlisted man's uniforms), a good example of this is the McCleaver uniform in the former Museum of the Confederacy, consisting of a well worn, shell jacket, vest and trousers, and a not so worn double breasted frock coat, all privately tailored, (well maybe not the trousers, but probably).

For a N.C. officer wearing an issue shell jacket, I'd say the Royal Depot, or any other N.C. depot jacket would be sufficient.

EDIT: Since your asking about a colonel, I'd say and enlisted man's jacket would have been rare, I missed that key word in my original post. What I had said applies to field officers, as in Major on down, Colonels were basically staff officers, to see enlisted issue jackets with insignia, would have been very rare, they might have worn shell jackets, even depot made ones but they would have been modified, as in added branch of service trim, etc.
 
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I posted this on a previous thread...
During 1863 there was a concerted effort, as with the rank and file, to give a more uniform look to officers. Quartermaster records show bulk issues of English army cloth and buttons to officers (lieutenants and captains), in numerous regiments, in both the Eastern and Western theatres. The regimental quartermaster would issue every company officer in the unit 4 yards of English cloth, 14 large and 6 small brass buttons. The officers would pay the QM a set price for the items. They would then be taken to regimental or private tailors to be made up. The amount of cloth and number of buttons indicate frock coats to me. This practice continued well into 1864, towards the end of which records become scarce, so research is limited.
 
I just had a thought, I don't know why I put 'unless he was promoted from the ranks'. A Colonel? Sorry folks, I think it must be the unfeasibly hot weather we're experiencing :unsure:

That thought brought another thought to mind … bit off-topic, but I remember a bunch of us having a conversation some years back with a fellow who is a fount of knowledge on the ANV. He told us that many Virginia Regiments were extremely aristocratic and that even with Battlefield casualties, refused to promote from the ranks to replace lost Officers within the regiment. They brought them in from outside.
 
Guys this all wonderful information, would any of y'all know where I would need to search to figure out what a specific officer would have been wearing at a particular battle? I know the archives would have the info, but I wouldn't know where to begin.

If you can find a diary or memoir, that would be my first bet.
 
Just my opinion, but I doubt the archives or the Official Records would have such information.
I agree about personal correspondence or a diary. On the other hand, it could be worth a try to take a look at the records. I've certainly seen my fair share of Confederate records lately :D and can attest to the obscure information that can be found therein - including the Requisitions for 4 yds of cloth and buttons described above by @tullock What's the name of this Colonel you need to know about @18thmississippi and what battle are you specifically looking for?
 
I agree about personal correspondence or a diary. On the other hand, it could be worth a try to take a look at the records. I've certainly seen my fair share of Confederate records lately :D and can attest to the obscure information that can be found therein - including the Requisitions for 4 yds of cloth and buttons described above by @tullock What's the name of this Colonel you need to know about @18thmississippi and what battle are you specifically looking for?

Col. Risden Tyler Bennett of the 14th NC during the valley campaign of 64
 
Col. Risden Tyler Bennett
Wow. Interesting story. 21 yo Lawyer. Enlisted as a Private. Rose quickly through the ranks. Here's the file. There should be 108 pages.
 

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thank you so much for that this is awesome
I scanned through the records and unfortunately didnt see anything related to his uniform. I did get the impression that he was a precise record keeper. And he requested that his wife be informed of his capture and imprisonment. Looks like he was captured Sept 19, 1864 at 3rd Winchester. Have you read Scott Patchan's book The Last Battle of Winchester: Phil Sheridan, Jubal Early, and the Shenandoah Valley Campaign, August 7 - September 19, 1864
 
I scanned through the records and unfortunately didnt see anything related to his uniform. I did get the impression that he was a precise record keeper. And he requested that his wife be informed of his capture and imprisonment. Looks like he was captured Sept 19, 1864 at 3rd Winchester. Have you read Scott Patchan's book The Last Battle of Winchester: Phil Sheridan, Jubal Early, and the Shenandoah Valley Campaign, August 7 - September 19, 1864
No I havent
 
I think a colonel would still wear a frock coat in 1864, but junior-grade officers sometimes did wear jackets.

Check out this study on Richmond Depot jackets: https://www.libertyrifles.org/research/uniforms-equipment/richmond-jackets

There are a few in there worn by junior-grade officers, even in 1862 and 63.
Does anyone recall Grant accepting the surrender of the ANV wearing a sack coat? The preference of the officer in question would dictate his attire, frock coats are cumbersome while mounted and most colonels were. I have the effects of Col John Cromwell, of the 47th Ill, who was killed just prior to Champions Hill. His frock coat survives because he was wearing his sack coat and stored his frock, two pairs of pants a vest and extra pair of boots in his trunk.

Grant's sack, in the Ray Richey collection:

Grant+Coat+1.jpg
 

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