Coehorn mortar?

[bamaman]

Does anyone know what à Coehorn mortar is?

 

[USS ALASKA]

"Another question is that was there any type of hand grenade used during the Civil War?"

Hanes grenade | 19th Century Invention & Innovation

Never knew these existed! https://www.facebook.com/reel/355146797100990?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz

civilwartalk.com

...and...

Ordnance Papers | Cannons / Artillery & Crew Served Weapons

CIVIL WAR EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE Revised 10 November 1960 U. S. NAVAL SCHOOL, EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE DISPOSAL U. S. NAVAL PROPELLANT PLANT Indian Head, Maryland U. S. NAVAL SCHOOL, EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE DISPOSAL A REPORT ON CIVIL WAR EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE by F. W. HACKLEY lst Lt, U. S. Army U. S. NAVAL...

civilwartalk.com

Open the paper attached to the first post and use the search function. 13 times the word 'grenade' is found.

HTHs,
USS ALASKA

 

[Northstep]

Never heard of this and is one of the most fascinating things I've ever seen. The explosion and shrapnel produced is amazing for a weapon so simple in concept.

In the video, when the cord/rope was pulled, what was the mechanism of action that caused the gunpowder to ignite?

 

[redbob]

Never heard of this and is one of the most fascinating things I've ever seen. The explosion and shrapnel produced is amazing for a weapon so simple in concept.

In the video, when the cord/rope was pulled, what was the mechanism of action that caused the gunpowder to ignite?

While some ordnance used a cap lock mechanism (much like the percussion caps on a musket/rifle) by far the majority of cannon/mortars used a friction primer fuse much like a common match. You pulled the lanyard which pulled a wire igniting fulminate of mercury which traveled down a tube igniting the powder charge in the cannon tube/ mortar.

 

[Northstep]

While some ordnance used a cap lock mechanism (much like the percussion caps on a musket/rifle) by far the majority of cannon/mortars used a friction primer fuse much like a common match. You pulled the lanyard which pulled a wire igniting fulminate of mercury which traveled down a tube igniting the powder charge in the cannon tube/ mortar.

Thank you! That makes perfect sense.

 

[Irishtom29]

Now that seems dangerous, Redbob!

That's one thing traverses were for--stand on the other side when firing the gun. ;-)

 

[Old Jim]

E. P. Alexander 1st Corps Artillery had six of them produced during the start of the siege of Petersburg. When the battle of the Crater was going on he brought them to the edge of the crater and starting droping shells almost vertically onto the Union troops trapped below them. He used a very small powder charge in order to get the vertical angle on the dropped. Must have been horrific. The advantage of them is that a crew of four could literally pick them up and carry wherever you wanted them placed.
Old Jim

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

E. P. Alexander 1st Corps Artillery had six of them produced during the start of the siege of Petersburg. When the battle of the Crater was going on he brought them to the edge of the crater and starting droping shells almost vertically onto the Union troops trapped below them. He used a very small powder charge in order to get the vertical angle on the dropped. Must have been horrific. The advantage of them is that a crew of four could literally pick them up and carry wherever you wanted them placed.
Old Jim

I'm reading Porter Alexander's book now, but haven't gotten to Petersburg yet.

 

[52ndFandS]

E. P. Alexander 1st Corps Artillery had six of them produced during the start of the siege of Petersburg. When the battle of the Crater was going on he brought them to the edge of the crater and starting droping shells almost vertically onto the Union troops trapped below them. He used a very small powder charge in order to get the vertical angle on the dropped. Must have been horrific. The advantage of them is that a crew of four could literally pick them up and carry wherever you wanted them placed.
Old Jim

It's probably from watching other artillery but tge Cohorn always has looked strange its recoil to me. I think I've seem too many field guns.

 

[1st Section]

To directly answer the question; a link to the National Park manual for loading & firing the Cohorn Mortar.

https://npshistory.com/publications/battlefield/hwp/coehorn-mortar-demos.pdf

Grant's men fashioned 12 pound Cohorn mortars out of logs during the siege of Vicksburg,

Logs to Mortars- Natural Killers

Union troops at Vicksburg were so desperate for siege weapons they made logs into mortars. During the early phases of the Vicksburg Campaign, General

www.historynet.com

Link to a Cohorn Mortar discussion:

The Coehorn Mortar; were they effective weapons? | Cannons / Artillery & Crew Served Weapons

When compared to cannons, mortars are cannon's short fat brothers. Mortars were not modern concept and had been around since the 1600s. Still mortars saw plenty of use during the Civil War. They are simple and rugged and fill a necessary need. Mortar's plunging shells are useful for...

civilwartalk.com

With all due respect to our friends in the National Park Service, that NPS mortar manual reads like it was written by someone completely unfamiliar with the weapon. I appreciate their concerns about safely managing people who have little or no experience, but that text just seems absurd.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Posted 2 days ago. At 5:46 - "Bell Foundries" "Pure Ring"? Cool - I wonder if you could play a song like with wine glasses... I learn something new, everyday.

The North-South Skirmish Association Mortar Match

NRApubs

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[Rhea Cole]

With all due respect to our friends in the National Park Service, that NPS mortar manual reads like it was written by someone completely unfamiliar with the weapon. I appreciate their concerns about safely managing people who have little or no experience, but that text just seems absurd.

Since I have known the highly qualified individuals who wrote that manuel for decades I will take your comments for what they are with. Out of curiosity, how many hundred rounds have you fired from a Coehorn Mortar? What historic drill are you basing your critique on? I would like to add it to my mortar folder.

Perhaps some live fire practice will inform your opinions:

COEHORN MORTAR

Coehorn Mortar Hunt for Wisconsin Feral Cats. How to Hunt with a Coehorn Mortar. Build a Civil War Mortar.

www.buckstix.com

 

[1st Section]

Since I have known the highly qualified individuals who wrote that manuel for decades I will take your comments for what they are with. Out of curiosity, how many hundred rounds have you fired from a Coehorn Mortar? What historic drill are you basing your critique on? I would like to add it to my mortar folder.

Perhaps some live fire practice will inform your opinions:

COEHORN MORTAR

Coehorn Mortar Hunt for Wisconsin Feral Cats. How to Hunt with a Coehorn Mortar. Build a Civil War Mortar.

www.buckstix.com

How many hundred rounds have I fired from a Coehorn? Between competition and practice over the years, conservatively only somewhere in range of 500-600 balls. I am literally in the video someone just posted above. We have fired everything from our 12pdr, 24pdr and 8" mortars, up to one of the Paulson Brother's 10" mortars at long range. We've even stumbled into a few medals along the way. I realize that isn't as much mortar experience as some, but we are primarily a field artillery oriented group.

We typically use the mortar drill from the War Department's adopted 1851 "Instruction for Heavy Artillery" text. It's essentially identical to the wartime versions republished under that title in both the north and south. At some point we hope to do an instructional video based on that text that you may find helpful.

My critique is less based on 'drill', as it seems geared to 18th century practices which I am far less familiar with, and more on the overall handling of the mortar (though the repeated instruction to use 'peripheral vision' when loading is highly suspect). I hope you might inquire of the "highly qualified individuals who wrote that manual" what their thinking is on 30-minute wait times and total flooding of the entire bore between shots with a chambered mortar.

Obviously, completely period correct demonstrations are well outside the comfort zone of the Park Service, but there is a point where risk aversion leads to something so far off from the original that we aren't really teaching the history of the weapons system at all. If the NPS would be interested in something more correct for 19th century mortar demonstrations that doesn't sacrifice safety concerns, there are people who would be happy to assist.

And yes, perhaps with just a bit more live fire practice my opinions might be better informed. I certainly hope it at least helps my target grouping.

 

[Rhea Cole]

How many hundred rounds have I fired from a Coehorn? Between competition and practice over the years, conservatively only somewhere in range of 500-600 balls. I am literally in the video someone just posted above. We have fired everything from our 12pdr, 24pdr and 8" mortars, up to one of the Paulson Brother's 10" mortars at long range. We've even stumbled into a few medals along the way. I realize that isn't as much mortar experience as some, but we are primarily a field artillery oriented group.

We typically use the mortar drill from the War Department's adopted 1851 "Instruction for Heavy Artillery" text. It's essentially identical to the wartime versions republished under that title in both the north and south. At some point we hope to do an instructional video based on that text that you may find helpful.

My critique is less based on 'drill', as it seems geared to 18th century practices which I am far less familiar with, and more on the overall handling of the mortar (though the repeated instruction to use 'peripheral vision' when loading is highly suspect). I hope you might inquire of the "highly qualified individuals who wrote that manual" what their thinking is on 30-minute wait times and total flooding of the entire bore between shots with a chambered mortar.

Obviously, completely period correct demonstrations are well outside the comfort zone of the Park Service, but there is a point where risk aversion leads to something so far off from the original that we aren't really teaching the history of the weapons system at all. If the NPS would be interested in something more correct for 19th century mortar demonstrations that doesn't sacrifice safety concerns, there are people who would be happy to assist.

And yes, perhaps with just a bit more live fire practice my opinions might be better informed. I certainly hope it at least helps my target grouping.

Welcome to our motley band.

Ok, so now that you have established your bonafides, we can move on to the question at hand. The number of individuals who have never so much as sniffed powder smoke who want to lecture me on cannon drill might surprise you.


I asked the ranger who supervises NPS live fire annual training about the Coehorn mortar drill. Strange as it might seem, they just follow the historic 18th century drill. As you would expect, being alert to safety concerns plays a big role in any NPS drill.

As a gunner with almost 30 years of NOS living history black powder living history experience I can testify to the emphasis on visitor safety. The few adjustments to the Civil War artillery drill are invisible to a visitor & highly rational.

Anyways, as a Western Theater practitioner, I have never seen a Coehorn mortar fired. If there is a regular NPS demo I am not aware of it.

Somehow the sweet gum tree trunk version at Vicksburg has never been demoed as far as I know. Now, that I would like to see… from a respectful distance that is.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Welcome to our motley band.

Ok, so now that you have established your bonafides, we can move on to the question at hand. The number of individuals who have never so much as sniffed powder smoke who want to lecture me on cannon drill might surprise you.


I asked the ranger who supervises NPS live fire annual training about the Coehorn mortar drill. Strange as it might seem, they just follow the historic 18th century drill. As you would expect, being alert to safety concerns plays a big role in any NPS drill.

As a gunner with almost 30 years of NOS living history black powder living history experience I can testify to the emphasis on visitor safety. The few adjustments to the Civil War artillery drill are invisible to a visitor & highly rational.

Anyways, as a Western Theater practitioner, I have never seen a Coehorn mortar fired. If there is a regular NPS demo I am not aware of it.

Somehow the sweet gum tree trunk version at Vicksburg has never been demoed as far as I know. Now, that I would like to see… from a respectful distance that is.

Coehorns have always seemed dangerous to me. I recall reading that Edward Porter Alexander said they used small charges of powder in discharging the 12 pounder Coehorns. He had had Col. Josiah Gorgas build a number of them just prior to the siege of Petersburg. They were no match for the larger and more numerous Union mortars.

 

[Rhea Cole]

On the subject of wait times between rounds & the extreme care with the Coehorn, you can thank Parks Canada for that. They did an experiment to determine the length of time an ember would stay lit in a cannon barrel before starving out from lack of oxygen… seven minutes, it turns out. That is a lot longer than a person might think. The NPS uses a respectful 10 minute between rounds rule.

In the re-enacting community writ large annually somebody suffers injury & or traumatic amputation while quick firing. It was ever thus. The first record I have comes from the 1500's. The NPS record of premature detonation since 1960 is zero.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

The CSA used Coehorn mortars at Spanish Fort at Mobile Bay.

 

[7thWisconsin]

I saw 9ne fired at Fort Ticonderoga in upstate NY. I was looking at it before they retired and thought, "Well that doesn't look like much."

After the firing I'm glad I wasn't downrange back when. And at 8 years old I had much respect for artillery.

I fired a coehorn recently. Since the barrel is very short, the muzzle is RIGHT THERE! The blast wave is pretty intense. It hit me hard enough for me to take a step backward. And they´re loud. I´ve never worn hering protection when firing an artillery piece before. One of the staff recommended with these words ¨You´ll want earplugs. Trust me.¨ I did.

 

[R. Porter]

This is a Coehorn Mortar link that is very informative, but not for the faint of heart. It does involve live fire.

COEHORN MORTAR

Coehorn Mortar Hunt for Wisconsin Feral Cats. How to Hunt with a Coehorn Mortar. Build a Civil War Mortar.

www.buckstix.com

This sounds like what you would get if you mentioned to your next door neighbor, an experimental physicist, "I have this feral cat problem..."

 

[52ndFandS]

I fired a coehorn recently. Since the barrel is very short, the muzzle is RIGHT THERE! The blast wave is pretty intense. It hit me hard enough for me to take a step backward. And they´re loud. I´ve never worn hering protection when firing an artillery piece before. One of the staff recommended with these words ¨You´ll want earplugs. Trust me.¨ I did.

I was about fifty yards away from that cohorn when it was fired and it was loud from that distance. Cant imagine being right next to it.

I've not fired a piece of field artillery. And I'm starting to feel like I'm missing out.

 

[Rhea Cole]

This sounds like what you would get if you mentioned to your next door neighbor, an experimental physicist, "I have this feral cat problem..."

Or if your neighbor had already created a website entitled, 'Hunting Wisconcin White Tail Deer With A 12 Pound Mountain Howitzer.' He might be your first port of call.