Lincoln Clausewitz: Who is this General?

[SSVilla]

The question is: Which civil war general comes to your mind when reading this Clausewitz quote?

"Kind-hearted people might of course think there was some ingenious way to disarm or defeat an enemy without too much bloodshed, and might imagine this is the true goal of the art of war. Pleasant as it sounds, it is a fallacy that must be exposed: war is such a dangerous business that the mistakes which come from kindness are the very worst… It would be futile—even wrong—to try and shut one's eyes to what war really is from sheer distress at its brutality."​

 

[SSVilla]

My answer is: the first General that came to my mind was Halleck, not for the kindheartedness, but because of Jomini. Having translated his works, Halleck must have known Jomini like a religion. His "bloodless" capture of Corinth was the highlight example.

To a lesser degree it reminded me of McClellan for his siege of Yorktown and his overall principles of war. However, unlike Halleck, McClellan directed a campaign that resulted in a lot of bloodshed without achieving his goal, and Antietam was the bloodiest day of the war. McClellan was very uncomfortable with how bloody war was though and often wasn't even at the battles, staying in some far off location. He once could be found in a boat while his army was in a fierce battle. I am not passing judgement, but merely explaining why the passage reminded me of him.

Lastly, the Northern people reminded me of this quote when they were surprised that war resulted in terrible bloodshed. I don't know if Southern people were also surprised at the casualties at some point.

 

[John Hartwell]

Cump: "War is cruelty. You can't refine it. ... it is all Hell."

 

[JerryD]

My answer is: the first General that came to my mind was Halleck, not for the kindheartedness, but because of Jomini. Having translated his works, Halleck must have known Jomini like a religion. His "bloodless" capture of Corinth was the highlight example.

To a lesser degree it reminded me of McClellan for his siege of Yorktown and his overall principles of war. However, unlike Halleck, McClellan directed a campaign that resulted in a lot of bloodshed without achieving his goal, and Antietam was the bloodiest day of the war. McClellan was very uncomfortable with how bloody war was though and often wasn't even at the battles, staying in some far off location. He once could be found in a boat while his army was in a fierce battle. I am not passing judgement, but merely explaining why the passage reminded me of him.

Lastly, the Northern people reminded me of this quote when they were surprised that war resulted in terrible bloodshed. I don't know if Southern people were also surprised at the casualties at some point.

Is the question who is the quote describing? Or who said the quote? I voted based on who said the quote, not who the quote is describing.

 

[RedRover]

Or General Lee, "It is well that war is so terrible, or else we might grow too fond of it."

Lastly, the Northern people reminded me of this quote when they were surprised that war resulted in terrible bloodshed. I don't know if Southern people were also surprised at the casualties at some point.

Evidently yes. Almost from the beginning. Most in the South appear to have presumed a war, if one were even necessary, would conclude within a matter of weeks, at least that was what was proposed to them. Col. Charles Marshall of Lee's staff...

 

[SSVilla]

Is the question who is the quote describing? Or who said the quote? I voted based on who said the quote, not who the quote is describing.

My question admittedly is ambiguous. Who comes to your mind first thing?

I had in mind for myself who the quote was describing, because as I read the passage in the book that's immediately who came to mind. However, someone can read the quote and immediately have someone else in mind, perhaps someone who understood the principle instead.

Thus I included characters who, although the quote doesn't describe them, and perhaps only with great sorrow, understood that a bloodless war was the stuff of fiction. Lincoln is an example of this.

Cump Sherman had so many quotes about war's brutality that he would have agreed with Clausewitz. I can definitely see why he's the first general that came to someone's mind.

 

[SSVilla]

Or General Lee, "It is well that war is so terrible, or else we might grow too fond of it."



Evidently yes. Almost from the beginning. Most in the South appear to have presumed a war, if one were even necessary, would conclude within a matter of weeks, at least that was what was proposed to them. Col. Charles Marshall of Lee's staff...

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Thanks for sharing that. My knowledge of the Southern people is fragmented but as I read your quote I was reminded of those statements early on from Southern leaders that the bloodshed to result from the war would fit in a thimble. Someone also said he could drink all the blood that would result in the end (implying there would be little.) The human mind is astonishing, because as I wrote that I thought of a vampire, and there's been movies about vampire hunting in the civil war

Indeed the fiction that the war would be bloodless possibly induced many to just let go of their reluctance. Again I am reminded of Sherman and his warnings to the Southern people of Louisiana falling in deaf ears.

 

[RedRover]

Thanks for sharing that. My knowledge of the Southern people is fragmented but as I read your quote I was reminded of those statements early on from Southern leaders that the bloodshed to result from the war would fit in a thimble. Someone also said he could drink all the blood that would result in the end (implying there would be little.) The human mind is astonishing, because as I wrote that I thought of a vampire, and there's been movies about vampire hunting in the civil war

Indeed the fiction that the war would be bloodless possibly induced many to just let go of their reluctance. Again I am reminded of Sherman and his warnings to the Southern people of Louisiana falling in deaf ears.

As Col. Marshall mentioned, it was at least a ruling party which declared unequivocally either no war or a short one. Many Southern Whigs, etc. were rather certain that secession meant war, and certainly of a significant scale. Jubal A. Early in the Virginia for one...

It is said that the prickly General Early subsequently lost no occasion to needle those who promised otherwise. A few years later, in the waning months of the Confederacy, then General Early did so to Gen. Breckinridge, who ran on the Southern Democrat ticket in 1860...

Mary Chesnut says she was surprised to find in a June, 1861 conversation with Jefferson Davis his suggesting a long and difficult struggle ahead irrespective of its nature. She recorded that the war was then too long already.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

My first thought was that it sounds like someone criticizing McClellan.

 

[jackt62]

Even though Clausewitz was largely unknown to CW generals, the thought behind his quote very much represents the northern approach to the war after 1863. Sherman stands out most noticeably in that regard; he understood the brutality of war and its necessity in order to defeat a steadfast enemy.

 

[JerryD]

My question admittedly is ambiguous. Who comes to your mind first thing?

I had in mind for myself who the quote was describing, because as I read the passage in the book that's immediately who came to mind. However, someone can read the quote and immediately have someone else in mind, perhaps someone who understood the principle instead.

Thus I included characters who, although the quote doesn't describe them, and perhaps only with great sorrow, understood that a bloodless war was the stuff of fiction. Lincoln is an example of this.

Cump Sherman had so many quotes about war's brutality that he would have agreed with Clausewitz. I can definitely see why he's the first general that came to someone's mind.

Yes, when I read the quote and your question, I thought you were asking who does the quote sound like, as in who would say it. And I thought of Sherman, and to a lesser extent Forrest.