Real or Faux? Civil War Shako

[Phogan87]

Over the years I have used your form quite a bit to gain knowledge over the things I've collected for the last 15 years. I really appreciate all the insight and eagerness that the forum members have in sharing their experience to the newbies. I recently acquired a model 1850/1860 Civil War Shako. Through a lot of information, including info that I gain from this form, it seems as if the shakers that are painted were primarily the surplus ones that Bannerman embellished to increase his sales. As a result I saw one that had a plate that was not painted. Can anybody give me any information about this particular one? Does it look authentic what does anything look off about it? Also what do you gather regarding the horse hair plume? Thank you for everybody for their time in trouble.

 

[UCVRelics]

Interesting piece. This looks like a @Package4 question.

 

[Phogan87]

It's funny because I didn't want to discount anybody else's opinion but I realized over time that at @Package4 seems to be the go to expert for headwear.

 

[UCVRelics]

It's funny because I didn't want to discount anybody else's opinion but I realized over time that at @Package4 seems to be the go to expert for headwear.

We have MANY folks here that have a LOT of knowledge if they would chime in. Its just that @Package4 is very helpful in answering questions on this subject and is always willing to help.

 

[Package4]

This is a complete and righteous piece, as I noted in a PM, the attachment of the plate is what to look for since these shakos have yet to be reproduced. A very nice and enviable acquisition!

 

[Phogan87]

I really appreciate your insight. As I stated before I'm always astounded than how kind people are at helping out. While I understand there's no way to be 100% certain, does this look like one of those shakos that was actually issued? Again I'm going back to the fact that the eagle plate is not painted versus all the ones that were painted by Bannermans and other clearance houses. Also I'm curious about the horse hair plume. Any thoughts about why this is different from the regular pom? Again, as always, I appreciate the time in trouble.
Patrick

 

[Package4]

I really appreciate your insight. As I stated before I'm always astounded than how kind people are at helping out. While I understand there's no way to be 100% certain, does this look like one of those shakos that was actually issued? Again I'm going back to the fact that the eagle plate is not painted versus all the ones that were painted by Bannermans and other clearance houses. Also I'm curious about the horse hair plume. Any thoughts about why this is different from the regular pom? Again, as always, I appreciate the time in trouble.
Patrick

IIRC there was a horse hair plume and the feathered plume (both green) for these uniforms when they were procured from France. Jimmy Stametelos had a complete uniform in his collection and it went to the Horse Soldier, when he passed away, it was back there again recently. There was also a great article on the complete uniform in North South Trader's Civil War about 15 years ago. There is little way to tell whether your specific shako was issued, you also need to remember that they didn't make it past the parade ground as the uniforms did not fit the more robust American bodies and the leather shakos were way too hot. They ended up in storage and were purposed as necessary.

Most undoubtedly the underside of your visor is green and stamped with a company letter?

 

[Phogan87]

Thank you so much for the info. I haven't received it yet but I do remember that there is a letter stamped on the underside of the visor (I believe it was a B). Is this the company it was issued to or does this reflect the company that manufactured it? There's also a yellow stenciled "E" painted on the inside of the crown. I was extremely curious about this. I apologize that I don't have pictures of it.

 

[Trooper "D"]

This is a complete and righteous piece, as I noted in a PM, the attachment of the plate is what to look for since these shakos have yet to be reproduced. A very nice and enviable acquisition!

So how does this plate attach? Just curious. I've thought of trying to create one of those before. I used to have my older sister's marching band uniform that was gifted to me. I remember the shake somewhat but not how the front plate attached. 1977 it burned up with the house so my memory is a little foggy.
Cheers!

 

[Phogan87]

Here's a picture of the back of the Shako plate that was being sold by The Horse Soldier. It's attached to the hat by two wires.

 

[Trooper "D"]

Here's a picture of the back of the Shako plate that was being sold by The Horse Soldier. It's attached to the hat by two wires.

View attachment 446819

Thanks Mate. I was thinking that wires would be correct. I've got a Jeff Davis type eagle plate with a screw back and disk for putting through the holes on Shakos. I like your Infantry Eagle much better.
Cheers!

 

[Package4]

The proper attachment is pictured below, there is a hole with a brass washer on the fron of these and the tab passes through the hole and is either bent or affixed with a leather throng.

 

[Package4]

Please keep in mind that the many of these "issued" were without cap plates. The 62nd and 83rd PA Vols and the 18th Mass shakos were without cap plates. The NY Excelsior brigade had the plates with some secured by a brass nut. I would imagine that the plates with the wires could have been ordered to adorn the ones issued without and by that time they were put in storage with the hot monstrosities. I also have a screw backed plate running around here somewhere, but can't put my hands on it at present.

 

[Package4]

Here's a picture of the back of the Shako plate that was being sold by The Horse Soldier. It's attached to the hat by two wires.

View attachment 446819

I think this (Horse Soldier) is a Bannerman surplus piece, if you look closely you can see where the actual/original pin or mounting device has been sawed off. I surmise that Bannerman did this so that these would be more amenable to different headgear, post war.

Looking at your pictures, of the one purchased, it has the correct mounting device. Again congratulations on the real deal!

 

[Package4]

Thanks Mate. I was thinking that wires would be correct. I've got a Jeff Davis type eagle plate with a screw back and disk for putting through the holes on Shakos. I like your Infantry Eagle much better.
Cheers!

The wires are incorrect on this cap plate, in addition the Jeff Davis plate should have wire loops. There were two different types, one for the hat, which had a top loop and a looped hook for the brim. The eagle for the '51 & '54 shakos had loops that would allow for the brass rod for the Pom Pom to go though thus securing the Pom Pom/plume and eagle device on the front.

 

[Package4]

So how does this plate attach? Just curious. I've thought of trying to create one of those before. I used to have my older sister's marching band uniform that was gifted to me. I remember the shake somewhat but not how the front plate attached. 1977 it burned up with the house so my memory is a little foggy.
Cheers!

Interestingly enough, many of these shakos were later purchased by marching bands…….

 

[Package4]

The wires are incorrect on this cap plate, in addition the Jeff Davis plate should have wire loops. There were two different types, one for the hat, which had a top loop and a looped hook for the brim. The eagle for the '51 & '54 shakos had loops that would allow for the brass rod for the Pom Pom to go though thus securing the Pom Pom/plume and eagle device on the front.

Just to illustrate what I mean by the M1851 & '54 eagle plate on how they are affixed. There are two loops on the back of the plate and the brass rod of the Pom Pom goes down from the top of the hat through the loops.

 

[Package4]

Hat plate of the M1858 Hardee hat, with the double loops for the shako and a soldered brim hook. I'm not sure if they just added the hook to the standard shako eagle. The shako eagle faced the heraldic left while the M1858 eagle faced right.

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[Phogan87]

One never stops learning new stuff here. I thought for sure that was the standard attachment. @Package4 is a wealth of knowledge.

 

[Trooper "D"]

Just to illustrate what I mean by the M1851 & '54 eagle plate on how they are affixed. There are two loops on the back of the plate and the brass rod of the Pom Pom goes down from the top of the hat through the loops.View attachment 446853View attachment 446854

I understood what you were describing but they photos really help. Thanks.