Civil war era track?

[ACobra289]

Hi all.

Found this today where an old line ran. There was a CW battle when the Union came to burn the trestle. The old line is no longer there but I've been hoping to find a piece of the old track. I assume this is from that era, but I know some of the older track is U channel not T like this. I realize it's hard to gauge the scale, but it's about 5 inches tall and quite a bit smaller than modern track. Is this probably CW era? Thanks for any insight.

 

[JOHN42768]

I just learned more about RR track then i thought possible. Don't know if this may help, but weight per yard seems to be the determining factor. So maybe if you can weigh it based on a yard it might get you close. Ranges mostly 6", but up to 8". This list a bunch of lines.
https://www.csa-railroads.com/Essays/Confederate_Track.htm

 

[ACobra289]

I just learned more about RR track then i thought possible. Don't know if this may help, but weighy oer yard seems to be the determining factor. So maybe if you can weigh it based on a yard it might get you close. Ranges mostly 6", but up to 8". This list a bunch of lines.
https://www.csa-railroads.com/Essays/Confederate_Track.htm

Thank you. I was not able to carry it out today. I stuck it under a downed tree and will get it next time when I'm more prepared.

 

[DaveBrt]

Hi all.

Found this today where an old line ran. There was a CW battle when the Union came to burn the trestle. The old line is no longer there but I've been hoping to find a piece of the old track. I assume this is from that era, but I know some of the older track is U channel not T like this. I realize it's hard to gauge the scale, but it's about 5 inches tall and quite a bit smaller than modern track. Is this probably CW era? Thanks for any insight.

View attachment 385115

Would help a lot to know where the line of track is located.

 

[ACobra289]

Would help a lot to know where the line of track is located.

North of Greensboro, North Carolina.

 

[Carol]

North of Greensboro, North Carolina.

Sections in this area were devastated by weather, namely high water and floods during the early months of 1865. The line suffered from one engine explosion occurring in Rowan County resulting in two deaths, the engineer and the fireman. A passenger death also happened during the early months of the same year. All of this and the ending of the war was quickly upon the line. It appears that only 20 miles of the original track were said to be in good order by July of 1865 and this was primarily near the Jamestown, High Point area of Guilford County. The trestle located at Abbott's Creek was destroyed as well as others in this immediate area. Interesting find and I love the photo.

 

[Lubliner]

Thank you for your post. I think it is a pretty neat find. If that area has never been logged it is more of a possibility it could be the remnant of a railroad rail. I would think some deformation of the earth along the line would be visible, high or low spots running in the earth. Sometimes those can be hard to interpret, where even a wagon road may have coursed through. I hope someone can make a positive ID.
Lubliner.

 

[DaveBrt]

North of Greensboro, North Carolina.

The Piedmont Railroad was the CW railroad in that area. It was, unfortunately for RR sleuths, constructed by taking iron from about a dozen other railroads, with great variation is size and type of rail. There were several roads constructed in that area after the war, as well as logging roads that were laid down when needed, then moved to another area, al without records.

To have even a guess about its past, we need the best measurements you can get -- height, width of the bottom piece, width of the upper part, weight, length of what you weigh (yes, we will try to get to pounds per yard), whether it is iron or steel, and any words/numbers/letters on the side of the rail. Rails were connected to each other with fish plates (placed on the side of the bar, they were bolted to each of two bars to keep them from separating) and/or placed in chairs (iron pieces that sat under the rail, especially at connections with the next rail, spiked into a tie, and holding the rails like a hand with the rail going across the palm and the fingers wrapping around the lower part of the rail). Can you find any sign of either a fish plate or chair?

Certain identification is almost impossible, but we can give a try.

 

[DaveBrt]

Sections in this area were devastated by weather, namely high water and floods during the early months of 1865. The line suffered from one engine explosion occurring in Rowan County resulting in two deaths, the engineer and the fireman. A passenger death also happened during the early months of the same year. All of this and the ending of the war was quickly upon the line. It appears that only 20 miles of the original track were said to be in good order by July of 1865 and this was primarily near the Jamestown, High Point area of Guilford County. The trestle located at Abbott's Creek was destroyed as well as others in this immediate area. Interesting find and I love the photo.

You are very well informed about this area's RR. Do you have any documentation for these events? I am the owner/researcher/writer of the Confederate Railroads web site (www.csa-railroads.com) mentioned in post #2 and am always looking for information on the railroads. I have nothing on the locomotive explosion and deaths or on the Abbott's Creek trestle's destruction and would love to hear what you know about them or any other events during the war.

 

[Lubliner]

Hi all.

Found this today where an old line ran. There was a CW battle when the Union came to burn the trestle. The old line is no longer there but I've been hoping to find a piece of the old track. I assume this is from that era, but I know some of the older track is U channel not T like this. I realize it's hard to gauge the scale, but it's about 5 inches tall and quite a bit smaller than modern track. Is this probably CW era? Thanks for any insight.

View attachment 385115

You say about 5 inches tall, but it still puts the length indeterminant. I thought most track was made at 10 and 12 foot sections, or maybe 10 and 15(???). If this appears as maybe 5 or 6 feet at best with smooth ends, would such a short piece be used as a final fitter?
Lubliner.

 

[DaveBrt]

You say about 5 inches tall, but it still puts the length indeterminant. I thought most track was made at 10 and 12 foot sections, or maybe 10 and 15(???). If this appears as maybe 5 or 6 feet at best with smooth ends, would such a short piece be used as a final fitter?
Lubliner.

Rails were mostly 18, 21 or 24 feet long, with a very small number of shorter pieces.

 

[ACobra289]

Thanks so much for the responses. I was hesitant to give out the exact location, but this place has been detected for many years, so I don't think it would hurt. It's actually Reedy Fork Creek. But I just checked and it is indeed the Piedmont Railroad that owned it.

The length of that piece is only roughly 2 feet. I'm not sure what the process is for tearing out old tracks, but I thought they may have cut up some before pulling it out. They wouldn't have cut a section this small though, so I don't know if there is a good explanation on why the section is so short. Like Lubliner said, maybe it was a filler piece before they started the bridge or something.

I don't think the area has ever been logged, at least not directly where I found it due to the proximity of the creek. It's definitely an old RR bed, just not sure if it's the one from the CW or if maybe a later one before they put in the modern line a few hundred yards away.

I'm going to bring it home, but it probably won't be today as it's nasty out. I'll get better measurements and check the sides for any markings. (That would be cool if it had some lettering!!)

Thanks again.

 

[DaveBrt]

Thanks so much for the responses. I was hesitant to give out the exact location, but this place has been detected for many years, so I don't think it would hurt. It's actually Reedy Fork Creek. But I just checked and it is indeed the Piedmont Railroad that owned it.

The length of that piece is only roughly 2 feet. I'm not sure what the process is for tearing out old tracks, but I thought they may have cut up some before pulling it out. They wouldn't have cut a section this small though, so I don't know if there is a good explanation on why the section is so short. Like Lubliner said, maybe it was a filler piece before they started the bridge or something.

I don't think the area has ever been logged, at least not directly where I found it due to the proximity of the creek. It's definitely an old RR bed, just not sure if it's the one from the CW or if maybe a later one before they put in the modern line a few hundred yards away.

I'm going to bring it home, but it probably won't be today as it's nasty out. I'll get better measurements and check the sides for any markings. (That would be cool if it had some lettering!!)

Thanks again.

The ony Reedy Fork Creek I can find in the area is east of Yanceyville -- some 25 miles east of Reidsville, which was on the line of the Piedmont RR.

 

[Carol]

You are very well informed about this area's RR. Do you have any documentation for these events? I am the owner/researcher/writer of the Confederate Railroads web site (www.csa-railroads.com) mentioned in post #2 and am always looking for information on the railroads. I have nothing on the locomotive explosion and deaths or on the Abbott's Creek trestle's destruction and would love to hear what you know about them or any other events during the war.

One available source listing all of the events I mentioned and more can be found with the 16th Annual Stockholders Meeting of the North Carolina Railroad Company dated July 13, 1865. This meeting was held in Salisbury and goes into detail of the current situation of the company, both financial and structural. John W. Thomas is listed as acting chairman with J.A. Guion and W.A Dunn as acting secretaries. The ending of the fiscal year dated May 31, 1865 required this meeting to "come together" and establish a complete report regarding the company and the current events. A committee was formed entitled, "The Sinking Fund Committee" and this meeting disclosed a full report from various witnesses and members who submitted their findings during the session. The report includes financial graphs, details about the line closures from Raleigh to Goldsboro which were confiscated by the Union along with several engines and rail cars. The report reveals the purchase of 4 engines by the Confederacy and were now in the hands of the B&O line and the federal government. It appears that appeals were submitted but a final decision by the Secretary of War, Edward Stanton(pictured below), carried out the final decision that these four engines were no longer the property of the NC company. (note: I am currently researching more into the original purchase of these 4 engines and at what time period this transaction did occur with the whys and whos involved) A great deal of information pertaining to the line can be found at the link located below. I think you will find this all very interesting.


In regards to the engine explosion; the meeting referred to this as the "best engine of the road, the Rowan". James Martin was the engineer who was named during the meeting and killed instantly. The engine had previous repairs and this was the first run after those repairs. Nothing was reported to the cause but remarks were mentioned regarding engineer James Martin and his work performance as good and above average. The heavy rains of that early spring are also mentioned in the meeting and I will let you browse through them at your leisure. I would like to note that during Stoneman's raid through North Carolina, the meeting noted the burning of several warehouses, water-stations and sheds all throughout the area of Salisbury and High Point. The meeting blamed these fires on Stoneman and his men. However; other fires occurred in Raleigh and Goldsboro by the Confederate soldiers which quickly destroyed numerous warehouses. Ok, I'll leave you with a direct online link to this data. I want to congratulate you on the success of your website. I have visited the site more than once and look forward to your future progress.

July 13th, 1865 Meeting of the North Carolina Railroad

 

[DaveBrt]

One available source listing all of the events I mentioned and more can be found with the 16th Annual Stockholders Meeting of the North Carolina Railroad Company dated July 13, 1865. This meeting was held in Salisbury and goes into detail of the current situation of the company, both financial and structural. John W. Thomas is listed as acting chairman with J.A. Guion and W.A Dunn as acting secretaries. The ending of the fiscal year dated May 31, 1865 required this meeting to "come together" and establish a complete report regarding the company and the current events. A committee was formed entitled, "The Sinking Fund Committee" and this meeting disclosed a full report from various witnesses and members who submitted their findings during the session. The report includes financial graphs, details about the line closures from Raleigh to Goldsboro which were confiscated by the Union along with several engines and rail cars. The report reveals the purchase of 4 engines by the Confederacy and were now in the hands of the B&O line and the federal government. It appears that appeals were submitted but a final decision by the Secretary of War, Edward Stanton(pictured below), carried out the final decision that these four engines were no longer the property of the NC company. (note: I am currently researching more into the original purchase of these 4 engines and at what time period this transaction did occur with the whys and whos involved) A great deal of information pertaining to the line can be found at the link located below. I think you will find this all very interesting.
View attachment 385187

In regards to the engine explosion; the meeting referred to this as the "best engine of the road, the Rowan". James Martin was the engineer who was named during the meeting and killed instantly. The engine had previous repairs and this was the first run after those repairs. Nothing was reported to the cause but remarks were mentioned regarding engineer James Martin and his work performance as good and above average. The heavy rains of that early spring are also mentioned in the meeting and I will let you browse through them at your leisure. I would like to note that during Stoneman's raid through North Carolina, the meeting noted the burning of several warehouses, water-stations and sheds all throughout the area of Salisbury and High Point. The meeting blamed these fires on Stoneman and his men. However; other fires occurred in Raleigh and Goldsboro by the Confederate soldiers which quickly destroyed numerous warehouses. Ok, I'll leave you with a direct online link to this data. I want to congratulate you on the success of your website. I have visited the site more than once and look forward to your future progress.

July 13th, 1865 Meeting of the North Carolina Railroad

OK, I understood that you were talking about events on the Piedmont RR when you were talking about the North Carolina RR.

Glad you are enjoying my site. I'm now writing my second book on aspects of Confederate railroads. The first was Locomotives Up the Turnpike, the CW career of QM Capt. T. R Sharp. The second is a bio of the CS RR Bureau, its people, problems and results.

 

[Carol]

OK, I understood that you were talking about events on the Piedmont RR when you were talking about the North Carolina RR.

Glad you are enjoying my site. I'm now writing my second book on aspects of Confederate railroads. The first was Locomotives Up the Turnpike, the CW career of QM Capt. T. R Sharp. The second is a bio of the CS RR Bureau, its people, problems and results.

Congratulations once again on the upcoming book. I am very interested in the CS RR and the actual people and problems associated with them. I love the details as I stroll by. Keep me posted on the book.

 

[DaveBrt]

One available source listing all of the events I mentioned and more can be found with the 16th Annual Stockholders Meeting of the North Carolina Railroad Company dated July 13, 1865. This meeting was held in Salisbury and goes into detail of the current situation of the company, both financial and structural. John W. Thomas is listed as acting chairman with J.A. Guion and W.A Dunn as acting secretaries. The ending of the fiscal year dated May 31, 1865 required this meeting to "come together" and establish a complete report regarding the company and the current events. A committee was formed entitled, "The Sinking Fund Committee" and this meeting disclosed a full report from various witnesses and members who submitted their findings during the session. The report includes financial graphs, details about the line closures from Raleigh to Goldsboro which were confiscated by the Union along with several engines and rail cars. The report reveals the purchase of 4 engines by the Confederacy and were now in the hands of the B&O line and the federal government. It appears that appeals were submitted but a final decision by the Secretary of War, Edward Stanton(pictured below), carried out the final decision that these four engines were no longer the property of the NC company. (note: I am currently researching more into the original purchase of these 4 engines and at what time period this transaction did occur with the whys and whos involved) A great deal of information pertaining to the line can be found at the link located below. I think you will find this all very interesting.
View attachment 385187

In regards to the engine explosion; the meeting referred to this as the "best engine of the road, the Rowan". James Martin was the engineer who was named during the meeting and killed instantly. The engine had previous repairs and this was the first run after those repairs. Nothing was reported to the cause but remarks were mentioned regarding engineer James Martin and his work performance as good and above average. The heavy rains of that early spring are also mentioned in the meeting and I will let you browse through them at your leisure. I would like to note that during Stoneman's raid through North Carolina, the meeting noted the burning of several warehouses, water-stations and sheds all throughout the area of Salisbury and High Point. The meeting blamed these fires on Stoneman and his men. However; other fires occurred in Raleigh and Goldsboro by the Confederate soldiers which quickly destroyed numerous warehouses. Ok, I'll leave you with a direct online link to this data. I want to congratulate you on the success of your website. I have visited the site more than once and look forward to your future progress.

July 13th, 1865 Meeting of the North Carolina Railroad

I have photocopies of about 85 CW annual reports from Confederate railroads. Let me know if you need anything from them. There is a list of what I have in my References page.

 

[ACobra289]

I have the piece of rail home. Also found one of the plates that connects the rail to the ties. Give me some time to get cleaned up and some lunch and I'll post measurements and weight later this afternoon. How would i tell if it's iron v/s steel?

I seriously appreciate all the help.

 

[Carol]

I have photocopies of about 85 CW annual reports from Confederate railroads. Let me know if you need anything from them. There is a list of what I have in my References page.

I have been conducting a particular subject with the CS line for years concerning the mines in and around Greensboro and the High Point area. I would like more information and data concerning the operation of the mines and the involvement of the railroad. Any guidance for me in this direction?

 

[ACobra289]

Here are the measurements and weight.

The piece is a hair over 22 inches long. The height is approximately 3 1/2". The width of the bottom of the track is also 3 1/2".

The weight is 30.4 pounds. So 1.38 pounds per inch. I don't know if that helps or not.

Here is a pic of it with the plate.