NF Civil War Desertion

[major bill]

Just started to read Desertion During the activity War by Ella Lonn. So what will I learn by reading this book?

On page 5 "The records show clearly that Mexicans were enlisted in the Southern service but proved utterly unrelabe."

This statement by Lonn seems a bit broad and is not much supported in the book.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Does the author mean Mexican-Hispanic Texans or mercenaries from Mexico?

 

[major bill]

Did not say. I assume Mexican Americans living in Texas and Mexican citizans who we in Texas for what ever reason.

 

[leftyhunter]

Did not say. I assume Mexican Americans living in Texas and Mexican citizans who we in Texas for what ever reason.

I am at work now but I have at least one book. "Bitterly divided the South's inner civil war" David William's thenewpress.com that extensively discuss Hispanic desertion in Texas.
Leftyhunter

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

I dunno. If I remember correctly, Lonn's works are a bit dated and suffer from some prejudices that were considered the norm when published.

 

[Zella]

I dunno. If I remember correctly, Lonn's works are a bit dated and suffer from some prejudices that were considered the norm when published.

I was wondering if this was the case too. I looked up the book and saw it was originally written in the 1920s.

@major bill I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the book when you're finished with it. Been wanting to learn more about desertion/deserters during the Civil War myself.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

Andrew Jackson Lewis, of Caldwell County, NC a Confederate Private in Company G 37th NC Infantry, died of a gun shot wound from former Captain Wilson White of Company I 26th NC, also from Caldwell County. White was home after failing to be re-elected. Andrew had requested to go home to see his family and was denied the leave, he told them he was going home anyway, and White apparently took it on himself to shoot him.

 

[Coonewah Creek]

Concerning desertion, Southern desertion anyway, it was real and the causes were many and varied. Of some 1800+ individuals that passed through the ranks of the 2nd Mississippi, I show some 297 cases of "desertion." However, while many cases were just that...desertion...upon closer examination of the individual Compiled Military Service Records you would find that many of these individuals were taken prisoner by Federal forces when sent home to Mississippi on furlough and word never got back to the regiment (northern Mississippi was under tenuous Federal control for much of the war); some were actually captured in battle but were never recorded as such on the company rolls, and other cases of misreporting, etc. I don't know if there have been any real statistical studies that scanned service records for just the term "deserter" in the records and reported the raw percentages out or if they looked in more detail at each individual record before arriving at a judgement. If the former, the percentages are almost certainly incorrect; if the latter, the numbers would be much closer to reality.

 

[Zella]

Concerning desertion, Southern desertion anyway, it was real and the causes were many and varied. Of some 1800+ individuals that passed through the ranks of the 2nd Mississippi, I show some 297 cases of "desertion." However, while many cases were just that...desertion...upon closer examination of the individual Compiled Military Service Records you would find that many of these individuals were taken prisoner by Federal forces when sent home to Mississippi on furlough and word never got back to the regiment (northern Mississippi was under tenuous Federal control for much of the war); some were actually captured in battle but were never recorded as such on the company rolls, and other cases of misreporting, etc. I don't know if there have been any real statistical studies that scanned service records for just the term "deserter" in the records and reported the raw percentages out or if they looked in more detail at each individual record before arriving at a judgement. If the former, the percentages are almost certainly incorrect; if the latter, the numbers would be much closer to reality.

That's very interesting--thanks for sharing!

My interest in desertion/deserters has been sparked by doing Civil War genealogy on one side of the family. One of my ancestors was listed as a deserter, but I found him on a POW roll. Haven't yet figured out if he really deserted or his unit just didn't get the memo when he was captured. He was an officer who had served for nearly the entirety of the war, so it seemed a little weird to me that he'd desert so late.

I have others who are listed as "deserters, expected to return" or at least seem to periodically abandon their posts and then return weeks later. They were all enlisted men. Their home counties were the scenes of some nasty partisan fighting, and according to census records, they were all illiterate. Their absences they returned from seem to line up with some of the worst conditions back home, so I suspect they were going back home to check on their families since it's not like they were probably getting letters with updates.

And then there are certainly others who did seem to just flat-out desert, never to return.

 

[Coonewah Creek]

That's very interesting--thanks for sharing!

My interest in desertion/deserters has been sparked by doing Civil War genealogy on one side of the family. One of my ancestors was listed as a deserter, but I found him on a POW roll. Haven't yet figured out if he really deserted or his unit just didn't get the memo when he was captured. He was an officer who had served for nearly the entirety of the war, so it seemed a little weird to me that he'd desert so late.

I have others who are listed as "deserters, expected to return" or at least seem to periodically abandon their posts and then return weeks later. They were all enlisted men. Their home counties were the scenes of some nasty partisan fighting, and according to census records, they were all illiterate. Their absences they returned from seem to line up with some of the worst conditions back home, so I suspect they were going back home to check on their families since it's not like they were probably getting letters with updates.

And then there are certainly others who did seem to just flat-out desert, never to return.

I am convinced the term AWOL (absent without leave) did not carry the stigma during the Civil War that it does now. Many members of the 2nd Mississippi were carried as AWOL for extended time periods before rejoining the regiment, apparently without any negative repercussions.

 

[Zella]

I am convinced the term AWOL (absent without leave) did not carry the stigma during the Civil War that it does now. Many members of the 2nd Mississippi were carried as AWOL for extended time periods before rejoining the regiment, apparently without any negative repercussions.

I think you're right! I also suspect their company-level officers (lieutenants and captains) were more likely to be hometown boys and not military professionals, so they'd probably be more sympathetic and trusting about their childhood friends, neighbors, and cousins going home for a bit to check on the folks.

 

[leftyhunter]

I think you're right! I also suspect their company-level officers (lieutenants and captains) were more likely to be hometown boys and not military professionals, so they'd probably be more sympathetic and trusting about their childhood friends, neighbors, and cousins going home for a bit to check on the folks.

If your interested I can bump up my two threads " How serious was desertion in the Confederate Army?" and "How serious was desertion in the Union Army?".
Two key differences between Confederate and Union desertion.;
1.The Union Army was able to recruit thousands of Confederate deserters into the Union Army i.e. 3rd North Carolina Mounted Infantry Union, 2nd Florida Cavalry Union.

2.Many Confederate deserters became Unionist deserters two famous ones were Newt Knight and David "Tinker Dave" Beatty.
Leftyhunter

 

[Zella]

If your interested I can bump up my two threads " How serious was desertion in the Confederate Army?" and "How serious was desertion in the Union Army?".
Two key differences between Confederate and Union desertion.;
Leftyhunter

I would be very interested! Thank you!

1.The Union Army was able to recruit thousands of Confederate deserters into the Union Army i.e. 3rd North Carolina Mounted Infantry Union, 2nd Florida Cavalry Union.

2.Many Confederate deserters became Unionist deserters two famous ones were Newt Knight and David "Tinker Dave" Beatty.

That matches what I am finding. Mentioned this before on other threads here, but I have a passel of relative from several families who deserted the Confederate 64th NC and then joined the Union 2nd NC Mounted Infantry. One of them had multiple desertions on his service record for both units.

By the way, I got my hands on that book you told me about concerning Kirk's Raiders. I'm about halfway through, and it's been a great resource! Thanks again for the recommendation.

 

[leftyhunter]

I dunno. If I remember correctly, Lonn's works are a bit dated and suffer from some prejudices that were considered the norm when published.

Such has?
Leftyhunter

 

[Coonewah Creek]

If your interested I can bump up my two threads " How serious was desertion in the Confederate Army?" and "How serious was desertion in the Union Army?".
Two key differences between Confederate and Union desertion.;
1.The Union Army was able to recruit thousands of Confederate deserters into the Union Army i.e. 3rd North Carolina Mounted Infantry Union, 2nd Florida Cavalry Union.

2.Many Confederate deserters became Unionist deserters two famous ones were Newt Knight and David "Tinker Dave" Beatty.
Leftyhunter

I show that 15 members of the 2nd Mississippi became "Galvanized. One of the more famous ones, Color Sergeant Christopher Columbus Davis (the color bearer during Pickett's Charge, where he was wounded and captured), became a Galvanized Yankee. He met your criteria of a "double deserter." Deserted the Union Army (or escaped, whichever you prefer) in June, 1864, returned to the 2nd Mississippi. Was promptly promoted to Ensign and 1st Lieutenant P.A.C.S. on August 25, 1864. Several of the other men ended up in the 3rd Maryland Cavalry, various Federal artillery units, and one went to Co. F, 6th U.S. Volunteers.

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

Such has?
Leftyhunter

Let me revise that a little after going through my stuff...I used Lonn's "Foreigners in the Union Army and Navy" years ago for a paper I wrote at university. While the statistics were incredibly useful, Lonn's knowledge and treatment of some subjects was a bit confusing. I went looking for reviews and this is a pretty good summary.

https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/imh/article/view/8140/9994

It's a solid book, but the author's strength seemed to be in statistics rather than the history and conclusions drawn. If I recall, Foreigners in the Confederacy was similar in scope, but it has been awhile. I haven't read the book on desertion specifically, but I would presume the writing characteristics to be similar.

 

[John Hartwell]

The major problem with "desertion" numbers, is that we can't easily determine whether they refer to the total number of men reported as having deserted, or those who actually had deserted permanently. A great many of those who were reported as deserters were simply "lost": dead, mia, wounded, pows, stragglers, temporarily awol, or whatever ... and eventually found their way back.

In fact, we see long postwar Federal pension applications being at first denied because such a "temporary" desertion was still on the record. If a desertion charge was not formally removed, it remained on the record. Postwar Congressional files contain hundreds of "Acts to remove the charge of desertion ..." from named veterans, in order to qualify them for pensions.

 

[Coonewah Creek]

The major problem with "desertion" numbers, is that we can't easily determine whether they refer to the total number of men reported as having deserted, or those who actually had deserted permanently. A great many of those who were reported as deserters were simply "lost": dead, mia, wounded, pows, stragglers, temporarily awol, or whatever ... and eventually found their way back.

In the case of infantry regiments, they seemed to take particular umbrage whenever they found out one of their members had "deserted" to join a cavalry unit. After all, "Who ever saw a dead cavalryman?"

 

[Zella]

In the case of infantry regiments, they seemed to take particular umbrage whenever they found out one of their members had "deserted" to join a cavalry unit. After all, "Who ever saw a dead cavalryman?"

That's funny!

In the book I've been reading that leftyhunter recommended to me (Kirk's Raiders: A Notorious Band of Outlaws and Thieves), it talks about how George Kirk and his commanding officer in the Union 2nd NC Mounted Infantry did not get along. They seem to have conducted their own private war with each other in the midst of the war everyone else was fighting.

When Kirk was given his own regiment, some of the 2nd Mounted Infantry men joined him for attacks. Their officers in the 2nd were furious and retaliated by listing them as deserters. One of them was my g-g-g-g-g uncle Thomas Jefferson Candler. Apparently, the effort to clear their names lasted for a few years after the war ended before Congress officially expunged their records.

Interestingly enough, Candler had previously deserted the Confederate 64th NC. His brother was the man I mentioned earlier, an officer in the 64th who was listed as a late deserter. The more I read on this thread, the more I suspect that he actually just had the misfortune of being captured and nobody in his unit knew.

 

[Coonewah Creek]

That's funny!

In the book I've been reading that leftyhunter recommended to me (Kirk's Raiders: A Notorious Band of Outlaws and Thieves), it talks about how George Kirk and his commanding officer in the Union 2nd NC Mounted Infantry did not get along. They seem to have conducted their own private war with each other in the midst of the war everyone else was fighting.

When Kirk was given his own regiment, some of the 2nd Mounted Infantry men joined him for attacks. Their officers in the 2nd were furious and retaliated by listing them as deserters. One of them was my g-g-g-g-g uncle Thomas Jefferson Candler. Apparently, the effort to clear their name lasted for a few years after the war ended before Congress officially expunged their records.

Interestingly enough, Candler had previously deserted the Confederate 64th NC. His brother was the man I mentioned earlier, an officer in the 64th who was listed as a late deserter. The more I read on this thread, the more I suspect that he actually just had the misfortune of being captured and nobody in his unit knew.

I'd be very hesitant in concluding anyone was really an actual "deserter" unless I had the details of his CMSR and maybe additional information to boot. So many things could happen that would prevent someone from getting back to his unit. It's a terrible term to label someone and I'd much rather err on the side of giving them the "benefit of the doubt."