Chancellorsville

[theoldman]

When Hooker was wounded, he chose not to turn command over to any of his subordinates, even thought he had had his bell rung and was not thinking too clearly, so everything began to fall apart. If he had relinquished command, some of his other generals might have had a different approach. This is my understand, at any rate. Please feel free to correct me.

Nothing to correct. 5fish provides a good summary above in post #15. Iirc Hooker was obsessed with security and did not explain his plan to his subordinates until it was required at the last possible moment. So when he 'had his bell rung' no one knew what to do and the response was to fall back and go on the defensive.

 

[theoldman]

Is there not some sort of default to override wounded and delirious generals? Without getting yourself court-martialled?

Normally, yes, Most orders have a contingency chain of command, but it doesn't always work.

 

[Pat Answer]

Is there not some sort of default to override wounded and delirious generals? Without getting yourself court-martialled?

McCoy tried to pull off the "command fitness" routine with Kirk a couple of times, I think.
Seriously, I don't know what the exact 19th century protocol was - if there was any - and will gladly defer to any expert who happens along.

 

[brass napoleon]

Playing the 'devil's advocate', so to speak, when Hooker became "incapacitated" the AOP froze. There is some controversy about what happened to Hooker but what ever it was certainly took the momentum out of his plans. When the Army did move it contracted and then very slowly.

The problem is that Hooker froze BEFORE his injury - the instant Lee turned his army to face him rather than "ingloriously flying", as Hooker had expected him to do.

 

[5fish]

Here is a few pages pointing out Hooker never admitted losing his nerve... Him lossing his nerve is something that came to be later in history... its a we bit of reading... both...

https://books.google.com/books?id=R... did general joe hooker loss is nerve&f=false

Here is a paper making a new argument on Hooker battle plans were...

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a401857.pdf

 

[67th Tigers]

Born on a farm in Putnam County, New York, on July 23, 1823, (some sources list 1822) Darius Couch didn't have far to go to get to his college, West Point. It was less than 50 miles due west of his family's homestead. He received a brevet during theMexican American War but left the army a lieutenant in 1855. Over the next five years he worked in his wife's family's business in Tauton, Massachusetts. It was his classmate, George McClellan who promoted the former lieutenant to brigadier general on August 9, 1861 (with rank from May 17). Couch spent the first few months of his military career training men to fight in the Army of the Potomac.
...

Following the end of the Seven Days, Couch requested to be relieved of duty because of illness. McClellan did not send the request to Washington, but promoted Couch to Major General with rank from July 4, 1862. After returning to Aquia Point, Couch's division was assigned to protect Washington during Lee's advance into Maryland. With the Union loss at Second Bull Run, McClellan returned to command and orderedWilliam B. Franklin to secure Maryland Heights (across the Potomac from Harper's Ferry). Franklin left Couch to control the Heights (and hence the town) and rejoined the Army of the Potomac at Antietam.

McClellan didn't promote anyone, that's a function of the civilian government.

I know that McClellan had asked for his corps commanders to be promoted from Brigadier to Major-Generals in the aftermath of Seven Pines (granted 4th July) and after the Seven Days asked for all his division commanders to be promoted MG, and this was granted in late July to date from 4th July, although the orders weren't published until September.

Hooker then used political connections to have his MG's seniority backdated to 5th May '62 (Williamsburg).

 

[5fish]

I like to point out if Meade and some generals had it their way and flank Jackson Corps. Instead of a great victory, it would have been Peach Tree battle before Peach Tree battle happened...

 

[Jamieva]

I like to point out if Meade and some generals had it their way and flank Jackson Corps. Instead of a great victory, it would have been Peach Tree battle before Peach Tree battle happened...

Can you provide a map that shows the disposition that would've allowed for the flank attack you speak of? I don't recall Hooker having major forces on the other side of the Rappahannock that could move where needed

 

[Jamieva]

The problem is that Hooker froze BEFORE his injury - the instant Lee turned his army to face him rather than "ingloriously flying", as Hooker had expected him to do.

Agree. Hooker had stolen the march on Lee he had done everything he wanted to up to that point. Then he stopped. At the worst place he could for having an army with 2 to 1 numerical superiority. It really is baffling

Side note I do believe 2nd Bull Run > Chancellorsville

 

[5fish]

Can you provide a map that shows the disposition that would've allowed for the flank attack you speak of? I don't recall Hooker having major forces on the other side of the Rappahannock that could move where needed

Watch the short Anemia and you will see that Meade and Reynolds were in position to flank Jackson corps.

http://civilwaranimated.com/ChancellorsvilleAnimation.html

 

[5fish]

I am, by the way, a LONG time student of the Battle of Chancellorsville.

If Reynolds and/or Meade had chose to attack Jackson Corps the battle of Chancellorsville would be remembered as the Battle of Peach Tree is today. They could have routed the fame Jackson Corps and maybe tarnished Stuart's, Jackson's and Lee's reputations in history.

I notice little is made of the fake line the confederates used to fool the union army into thinking its army was larger then it was. Who's idea was that in Lee's command?

Little is made that that both the union army and confederate army had broken each others signal codes before the battle. Hooker knew where Lee's army was scattered about better then Lee did before the battle. He was able to send Stuart cavalry on a goose chance before the battle giving him the hole he needed to flank Lee because the confederates had intercepted a false signal sent by Hooker. The funny part is Hooker knew the confederates had broken their signal codes so he used it against them.

Many forget it was Hooker who created/started army intelligence unit...

 

[Jamieva]

Watch the short Anemia and you will see that Meade and Reynolds were in position to flank Jackson corps.

http://civilwaranimated.com/ChancellorsvilleAnimation.html

I watched yours several times and didn't recall the union forces being that far out on the confederate left flank. They are almost touching in your animation. This one from what i have read about the battle and previous maps i have seen is a better representation of the lines.

Reynolds and or Meade do not have the authority to just decide to attack.