Champion Hill

[Forrest]

No one thing was decisive.

When Grant was able to make an unopposed landing on the Mississippi side of the Mississippi, the Confederates were in a difficult position.

Exactly. Champion Hill just sped things up, just as every Union victory during the campaign did.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Johnston's "Army of Relief"

Don't even get me started on that.

 

[Forrest]

Don't even get me started on that.

Haha. Who knows what Johnston could have done if he had chosen to do anything? I don't believe Vicksburg ever had a chance, regardless of what Johnston or Pemberton chose to do. Everyone has their own idea of when the decisive death blow was given to the Confederacy, and it's hard to argue against any of them as every event has causes that go back forever. I could argue that the death of the Confederacy was sealed before it was even born, by the 1850's when slavery had killed the effectiveness of using white labor, but if you made me pick a pivotal event during the actual war, it would be when Lee didn't march on D.C. after Chancellorsville.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I could argue that the death of the Confederacy was sealed before it was even born, by the 1850's when slavery had killed the effectiveness of using white labor,

Yep.

You could argue that, no question about it.

But that's actually a political argument better suited for the slave talk section of this site.

This is a sub section of the Battle Forums.
The politics of slavery had no effect whatsoever on the tactical details or the strategic results of the Vicksburg Campaign.

Who knows what Johnston could have done if he had chosen to do anything?

And that's my entire point.

Johnston had built up a very substantial Army that could have caused tremendous damage to Grant.

But you are correct.
Johnston thought it was best to do nothing.

 

[jackt62]

if you made me pick a pivotal event during the actual war, it would be when Lee didn't march on D.C. after Chancellorsville.

I don't see that as a realistic scenario for Lee at the time. Despite its overall losses, the AOTP was still relatively intact (in fact I and V Corps suffered very few casualties) and remained a formidable fighting force after withdrawing to its defenses across the Rappahannock River. In contrast, the ANV had suffered grievously and lost Stonewall Jackson. The situation for the ANV was even more fraught than it was after the relatively fewer casualties it sustained at Fredericksburg in December 1863, when even then Lee was reluctant to pursue the retreating federals.