Member Review Chamberlain or Washington?

[davepi2]

Question for the group. Yesterday for the first time I watched the film "The Crossing" starring Jeff Daniels. I can't believe I hadn't even heard of it before. To all those who have seen this movie who do you think Jeff did a better job of portraying, Washington or Chamberlain? I thought he was great as Washington.

 

[Manassas 1861]

Question for the group. Yesterday for the first time I watched the film "The Crossing" starring Jeff Daniels. I can't believe I hadn't even heard of it before. To all those who have seen this movie who do you think Jeff did a better job of portraying, Washington or Chamberlain? I thought he was great as Washington.

I think he did a better job portraying Chamberlain. To me he doesn't look anything like Washington.

 

[Conquerordie]

I think he did one of the better portrayals of Washington. I liked it that he showed anger which he rarely did, making fun of Knox for almost sinking the boat. Little touches that made his portrayl good.

I like his Chamberlain in Gettysburg, not so much in God's and Generals.

 

[davepi2]

I think he did one of the better portrayals of Washington. I liked it that he showed anger which he rarely did, making fun of Knox for almost sinking the boat. Little touches that made his portrayl good.

I like his Chamberlain in Gettysburg, not so much in God's and Generals.

The argument with Gage was what I liked best of his scenes in the two movies. I also liked the scene when he told Know to move his fat ***.

 

[JeffBrooks]

I have watched this movie many times and I think it contributed to making me want to write So Unexpected a Moment, which is a novel about the crossing of the Delaware and the battles of Trenton and Princeton. However, in retrospect, I find lots about the film that annoy me.

I thought Jeff Daniels did just fine, but not as good as David Morse in John Adams and not nearly as good as Ian Kahn in Turn.

The argument with Gage was what I liked best of his scenes in the two movies. I also liked the scene when he told Know to move his fat ***.

Both those scenes irritated me, because they are completely out of character for Washington. The idea that he would threaten to shoot a senior commander in front of his subordinates is absurd. As for loudly insulting Knox for being fat in front of enlisted men is even more absurd and frankly pretty offensive. Washington was a consummate gentleman and had enormous respect for Knox.

The script is based on a novel by Howard Fast. It is not a very good novel. Apparently, he saw a painting of Henry Knox and decided he was fat, so he made that the central feature of Knox in his novel, which in turn becomes the central feature of Knox in the film. Knox was a big guy, but he was a courageous hero and an excellent commander and deserved to be treated that way. Moreover, it was Knox who was in full command of the crossing operation itself, not Glover as depicted in both the novel and the film. I can't ever like the film because a big chunk of it is just a big insult to an American hero.

I also have a big problem with the only major part of dialogue spoken by Nathanael Greene, another person I have tremendous respect and admiration for. At the end of the film, in what is supposed to be the emotional climax, Greene suggests to Washington that they are not really any better than the Hessians, as they are fighting only to be free of taxation. Now, if you know anything about Greene, you would know that he was a true believer and would never, in a million years, have said anything remotely like that. Again, it's the shadow of Howard Fast trying to pull down our revolutionary heroes.

And finally, the story ends with the army marching away from Trenton. I get that the production budget and time limits probably required this, but if you know the full story it's infuriating. The crossing of the Delaware and the Battle of Trenton were just the first two days of the "Ten Crucial Days" that saved the revolution. We see nothing of the adventures of John Cadwalader's army trying to cross at Bordentown, nothing of the recrossing of the Delaware just days after they got back, the dramatic Battle of Assunpink Creek on January 2 or the climactic Battle of Princeton on January 3. It's like sitting down to watch the Super Bowl, only to find that the coverage ends after the first quarter is over.

 

[Conquerordie]

So thats a no for JeffBrooks

 

[Pat Answer]

Historical inaccuracies in dramatizations notwithstanding (and I hear @JeffBrooks on that!), Daniels probably just had more room to interpret the character of a lesser-known historical figure. Did he capture the mannerisms and quirks of the real-life J L Chamberlain? Who knows? But I certainly see him now when I read The Killer Angels and am sold on his portrayal of an amateur who finds he has a knack for this war thing after all.

Washington is... tougher. With a good script and more time to establish the strategic wisdom and people-savvy of a leader doing the best he can under trying circumstances (Ian Kahn), or the quiet dignity and gravitas of an elder statesman (David Morse), it certainly can be done well. In comparison, Daniels in The Crossing comes across, well, more like the desperately determined colonel of a regiment rather than a commander-in-chief.

Needless to say, I also vote Chamberlain.

(Unnecessary digression:
"[On the march to Trenton,] George Washington rode up and down the column urging his men forward. Suddenly the general's horse slipped and started to fall on a steep and icy slope. 'While passing a Slanting Slippery bank,' Lieutenant Bostwick remembered, 'his excellency's horse['s] hind feet both slip'd from under him.' The animal began to go down. Elisha Bostwick watched in fascination as Washington locked his fingers in the animal's mane and hauled up its heavy head by brute force. He shifted its balance backward just enough to allow the horse to regain its hind footing on the treacherous road. Bostwick wrote that the general 'seiz'd his horses Mane and the Horse recovered.' It was an extraordinary feat of strength, skill, and timing; and another reason why his soldiers stood in awe of this man." (Washington's Crossing, David Hackett Fischer, Oxford University Press, 2004, p. 227)

I doubt it, but it would be funny if Elisha had a descendant named Barry who played Washington in a 1984 TV miniseries...)

 

[davepi2]

I have watched this movie many times and I think it contributed to making me want to write So Unexpected a Moment, which is a novel about the crossing of the Delaware and the battles of Trenton and Princeton. However, in retrospect, I find lots about the film that annoy me.

I thought Jeff Daniels did just fine, but not as good as David Morse in John Adams and not nearly as good as Ian Kahn in Turn.


Both those scenes irritated me, because they are completely out of character for Washington. The idea that he would threaten to shoot a senior commander in front of his subordinates is absurd. As for loudly insulting Knox for being fat in front of enlisted men is even more absurd and frankly pretty offensive. Washington was a consummate gentleman and had enormous respect for Knox.

The script is based on a novel by Howard Fast. It is not a very good novel. Apparently, he saw a painting of Henry Knox and decided he was fat, so he made that the central feature of Knox in his novel, which in turn becomes the central feature of Knox in the film. Knox was a big guy, but he was a courageous hero and an excellent commander and deserved to be treated that way. Moreover, it was Knox who was in full command of the crossing operation itself, not Glover as depicted in both the novel and the film. I can't ever like the film because a big chunk of it is just a big insult to an American hero.

I also have a big problem with the only major part of dialogue spoken by Nathanael Greene, another person I have tremendous respect and admiration for. At the end of the film, in what is supposed to be the emotional climax, Greene suggests to Washington that they are not really any better than the Hessians, as they are fighting only to be free of taxation. Now, if you know anything about Greene, you would know that he was a true believer and would never, in a million years, have said anything remotely like that. Again, it's the shadow of Howard Fast trying to pull down our revolutionary heroes.

And finally, the story ends with the army marching away from Trenton. I get that the production budget and time limits probably required this, but if you know the full story it's infuriating. The crossing of the Delaware and the Battle of Trenton were just the first two days of the "Ten Crucial Days" that saved the revolution. We see nothing of the adventures of John Cadwalader's army trying to cross at Bordentown, nothing of the recrossing of the Delaware just days after they got back, the dramatic Battle of Assunpink Creek on January 2 or the climactic Battle of Princeton on January 3. It's like sitting down to watch the Super Bowl, only to find that the coverage ends after the first quarter is over.

Thanks for all the info Jeff, I have just started getting into The Revolution lately with a trip to North Carolina/South Carolina sites so all info is appreciated.