Cavaliers vs Puritans

[Henry Brown]

I don't think either state in the mid-19th Century showed much of a Puritan or New England influence.

i am not sure that i agree.
this is puritanism in 19th century new york. it (anti-catholicism) had been going on since the pilgrims and puritans arrived in the new world.

Thomas Nast's anti-Catholic cartoon in Harper's Weekly in 1875. It depicts Roman catholic bishops as crocodiles attacking public schools, with the connivance of Irish catholic politicians. Photograph: Public Domain

The Puritans' value system is lodged deeply in our psyches, shaping our emotions, judgments and behaviors. And its effects can be seen regardless of one's political orientation or religious affiliation. That's the conclusion of a group of researchers led by Eric Luis Uhlmann of the HEC Paris School of Management. The scholars writing in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, including Yale University psychologist John Bargh.

Most settlers in the American Mid-Atlantic and New England were Calvinists, including the English Puritans, the French Huguenots and Dutch settlers of New Amsterdam (New York), and the Scots-Irish Presbyterians of the Appalachian back country.

 

[Pat Young]

i am not sure that i agree.
this is puritanism in 19th century new york. it (anti-catholicism) had been going on since the pilgrims and puritans arrived in the new world.

Thomas Nast's anti-Catholic cartoon in Harper's Weekly in 1875. It depicts Roman catholic bishops as crocodiles attacking public schools, with the connivance of Irish catholic politicians.

Nast was a German immigrant and he may have come from a Catholic family.

 

[Henry Brown]

I have read Albion's Seed and echo your recommendation. However I don't think that "Cav and Round" thing is that useful in understanding secession.

i disagree. it is helpful in understanding a way of thinking from both points of view. the cavs (the planters and social elitists ) more or less felt entitled, superior, and above manual labor, and sought salvation or redemption through a just fight. the roundheads put more stock in their own hard work as a way to salvation.

 

[Henry Brown]

Nast was a German immigrant and he may have come from a Catholic family.

nast is not the only example of anti-catholicism.
In 1777, New York State's constitution banned Catholics from public office and would do so until 1806. from this point things changed somewhat with the increase in immigration particularly irish catholic but those natives of english ancestry remained calvinist as did the state in general.
i do agree though that the melting pot was well on it's way to being stew by 1860 and these terms of anglo-whatever? don't hold much water.

 

[BlueandGrayl]

I have read Albion's Seed and echo your recommendation. However I don't think that "Cav and Round" thing is that useful in understanding secession.

Thank you for crediting for my recommendation. Albion's Seed mind you has the East Anglian/Dutch settlers known as Puritans settle what would become Massachusetts/New England while the Southern/Western English settlers known as the Cavaliers did settle in Virginia so while I don't accept a 100% accept this thesis I do find the Cavalier-Puritan thing somewhat credible and my whole point of this Cavalier and Roundhead thing is to show how the South constructed an ethnic identity of its own.

 

[Henry Brown]

Nast was a German immigrant and he may have come from a Catholic family.

nast was a very interesting character . he was baptized a catholic but converted to protestantism. he rejected papal authority and was extremely anti-irish. he saw catholicism as a threat to american values and democracy and supported secular education and government. he was a staunch republican and personal friend of U S Grant and family. he was disillusioned with reconstruction which he saw as a bad compromise and eventually supported democrat grover cleveland running on a civil service reform platform. nast grew up in new york city and his emphasis on Irish violence may have originated in scenes he witnessed in his youth. In the neighborhood in which he grew up, acts of violence by the Irish against black Americans were commonplace.[