Canteens

[RickyTexan]

I was at Cedar Creek reenactment this year and noted a sutler offering a drum canteen with a chain to hold the cork; it was stamped CS and there was no cover. I was curious about that because one could imagine the noise from the chain on such a canteen or light shining off of that style canteen could alert opposing forces. Was stealth less of an issue during troop movements?

 

[major bill]

This would depend on what kind of operation one is speaking about.

 

[RickyTexan]

Excellent point. I try to put myself in their shoes (literally, when reenacting), and I think the sound might have become bothersome after a while, even when on the March when not trying to be stealthy. And I fear I would have forgotten to leave my canteen at camp when scouting...
One of the things I enjoy about reenacting (or experimental archeology as I prefer to call it) is that it raises the questions that no one else seems to ask. Perhaps they are about mundane things, but mundane things are what makes life real.

 

[7thWisconsin]

When Francis Barlow made the approach march on the Muleshoe in May 1864, troops were ordered to put canteens and cups inside their haversacks and inspections were made to make sure there were no noise makers on the outside of their equipment. Although there weren´t a lot of actions where stealth of this nature was required, from time to time commanders did understand the need.

 

[19thOhio]

When Schofield was maneuvering around Hood just before Franklin the Union men were ordered to only whisper and to put their canteens to the other side of their bayonets prevent clashing noises that might arouse suspicion. (N. A. Pinney 104th Ohio)

 

[Package4]

NY Depot canteens had the chain with stopper and they were prolific in the Federal Army. I am not aware of any Confederate canteen with same, so most likely extremely rare or a fantasy. The chain does not make much noise, though a tin cup banging on the canteen or a bayonet makes a considerable amount.

 

[RickyTexan]

Wow. This was a respected sutler. The canteen embassy definitely drum style and said CS. Hmm. I looked at other sutlers and found same. I wonder if the sutlers know that they are selling Farb stuff.

 

[Package4]

Wow. This was a respected sutler. The canteen embassy definitely drum style and said CS. Hmm. I looked at other sutlers and found same. I wonder if the sutlers know that they are selling Farb stuff.

There were CS embossed canteens, though extremely rare, I think fewer than 5 known and only two are complete and not relic condition. I was referring to the chain on Confederate canteen stoppers.

 

[captaindrew]

Wow. This was a respected sutler. The canteen embassy definitely drum style and said CS. Hmm. I looked at other sutlers and found same. I wonder if the sutlers know that they are selling Farb stuff.

There's usually plenty of farb to go around in most of the tents of the "respected sutlers" you see at events. Not to say that they don't also offer some decent stuff buy they have to have something to sell to everyone and you definitely get what you pay for. Most Confederate canteens, if they had anything at all to hold the cork, it would be a piece of twine.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

I was at Cedar Creek reenactment this year and noted a sutler offering a drum canteen with a chain to hold the cork; it was stamped CS and there was no cover. I was curious about that because one could imagine the noise from the chain on such a canteen or light shining off of that style canteen could alert opposing forces. Was stealth less of an issue during troop movements?

Good point raised.

Imagine it would be an issue in scouting, reconnoitering or other covert-type operations. (And they would have generally taken steps to eliminate this noise source when conducting these functions).

But not in movements of mass infantry formations.

 

[RickyTexan]

Good point raised.

Imagine it would be an issue in scouting, reconnoitering or other covert-type operations. (And they would have generally taken steps to eliminate this noise source when conducting these functions).

But not in movements of mass infantry formations.

I think I would change the chain to leather or string.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

I think I would change the chain to leather or string.

Yes, for survival and self preservation in such conditions.

 

[7thWisconsin]

There's usually plenty of farb to go around in most of the tents of the "respected sutlers" you see at events. Not to say that they don't also offer some decent stuff buy they have to have something to sell to everyone and you definitely get what you pay for. Most Confederate canteens, if they had anything at all to hold the cork, it would be a piece of twine.

There may be more CS embossed canteens floating around the hobby than were actually used! That´s the thing about a hobby: people will buy what they like; makers are in the business of making what people will buy. And so it goes. I think stoppers and chains must be cheap to procur and quick and easy to put on the finished product. The more history minded can swap it out for something better after it belongs to them.

 

[captaindrew]

There may be more CS embossed canteens floating around the hobby than were actually used! That´s the thing about a hobby: people will buy what they like; makers are in the business of making what people will buy. And so it goes. I think stoppers and chains must be cheap to procur and quick and easy to put on the finished product. The more history minded can swap it out for something better after it belongs to them.

Without a doubt there's many more of those and in places they never would have been. Reminds me of fishing lures, many of them are made more to get the fisherman to bite than the fish!

 

[LCYingling3rd]

Interestingly, noise was certainly an issue for the Confederate forces right there at Cedar Creek! With the eight hour, all-night, single file march from Fisher's Hill to the fords below the Union camps along Cedar Creek, a lack of noise was paramount to the success of the surprise attack!

None of my, "Echo's of Glory," type books show any Confederate drum type canteens with chains attached to the corks. One does show what appears to be twine wrapped around the stopper? Who knows if that is regulation issue? Most of them had no corks and if they did have them, they had no form of attachment. My Confederate "Echo's of Glory" does show one tin drum canteen with embossed "CS" on it. The book says it was possibly made in Louisiana specifically for Louisiana troops? Otherwise, none had CS on them.

 

[Lincoln56]

One of the things I enjoy about reenacting (or experimental archeology as I prefer to call it) is that it raises the questions that no one else seems to ask. Perhaps they are about mundane things, but mundane things are what makes life real.

Excellent point which I'd not considered in in depth prior to reenacting but once reenacting was surprised at the volume of equipment noises a moving unit made while fully equipped on the march. Great to experience this firsthand instead of reading about it. Which was true of so many things in my reenacting time.

We replaced the stopper chain on the tin canteens with twine when doing Confederate impressions; worked well and proved durable.

 

[RedRover]

Wow. This was a respected sutler. The canteen embassy definitely drum style and said CS. Hmm. I looked at other sutlers and found same. I wonder if the sutlers know that they are selling Farb stuff.

CWT Thread: embossed drum canteen; authentic or novelty piece...

From 2008, on Google Books:

Google Books: Civil War Sutlers Start up Kit...2008.

 

[James N.]

There may be more CS embossed canteens floating around the hobby than were actually used! That´s the thing about a hobby: people will buy what they like; makers are in the business of making what people will buy. And so it goes. I think stoppers and chains must be cheap to procur and quick and easy to put on the finished product. The more history minded can swap it out for something better after it belongs to them.

I seem to recall one of them turning up on Antiques Roadshow and Rafael Elledge telling the owner just how rare and valuable the item was; I believe five known was the number he threw out. So although it's a "genuine, period" item, it's one so rare that to my mind carrying one would be the height of farbyness.

 

[Woods-walker]

When Francis Barlow made the approach march on the Muleshoe in May 1864, troops were ordered to put canteens and cups inside their haversacks and inspections were made to make sure there were no noise makers on the outside of their equipment. Although there weren´t a lot of actions where stealth of this nature was required, from time to time commanders did understand the need.

So right! But then a mule caring cooking utensils broke free and had to be physically wrestled to the ground
Jokes aside- they still had to drive the CS pickets back which normally would alert the main body but this time the Federals were so overwhelming strong and the wet CS gun powder resulted in the breakthrough

 

[7thWisconsin]

So right! But then a mule caring cooking utensils broke free and had to be physically wrestled to the ground
Jokes aside- they still had to drive the CS pickets back which normally would alert the main body but this time the Federals were so overwhelming strong and the wet CS gun powder resulted in the breakthrough

And they almost got lost in the dark that night too! It´s funny because the distance isn´t really that long, but it may as well have been miles for formations that didn´t normally operate in the dark like that.