Hvy.Arty Cannon with minimal markings.

[major bill]

I visited GAR Park a.k.a. Island Park in Eaton Rapids Michigan. So why does this cannon have such minimal markings? This is the only marking I can find on this cannon. Also it has kind of an odd "carriage

 

[major bill]

Are some markings rusted off? Right and left side.

 

[major bill]

Its big brother on the other side of the Island has more traditional markings. Note the very small 6.4 under the 100 Pdr

 

[UCVRelics]

I visited GAR Park a.k.a. Island Park in Eaton Rapids Michigan. So why does this cannon have such minimal markings? This is the only marking I can find on this cannon. Also it has kind of an odd "carriage
View attachment 333623View attachment 333624

This 30 lb Parrott should have some inspectors marking and foundry marks on both trunnions but with the 4 digit # it could have been a late war made tube that was never inspected by the US. The markings on other US accepted tubes are normally very well done. Also that is not a carriage but a stand that was made to display this gun.

 

[major bill]

That is interesting that it may be late War. I was wondering why so few markings. And yes I know it is a stand not a carriage. Still it is an odd stand and I doubt I have seen one like it. It is possibly the origanal stand from when the gun was put in the park in 1910?

 

[LHR Lead]

It was cast to be experimental - to be used as proof of concept. It was not procured for use as a unit weapon so no initials or registration number.

 

[CivilWarTalk]

Strange that it says it's for the Army, isn't the hole bored through the rear knob more of a Naval design feature? Maybe that's just for the "experimental" purpose of the gun....

 

[Rhea Cole]

The 100 pound Parrott was mounted on metal carriage. The carriage was mounted on a pivot in fortifications. The photos clearly show the horizontal holes as in the cemetery gun. 100 pound Parrott was also used on ships with a similar metal carriage.

The proportions of the smaller gun appear to be those of a 30 pound Parrott. I don't find the lack of markings all that unusual. I have seen originals both with & without markings. Thinking out of the box, could this be a Confederate made gun? It has an awfully good finish, but the rather odd stamping might indicate that. Somebody with a lot more knowledge of Confederate manufacturing than me will have to sound in on that. It would be very cool if it was.

 

[UCVRelics]

Its not a CS gun as the rifling was very different then that of a US guns. Below is an example of the CS copy Brooke rifling, note the hook type style of the lands.

 

[major bill]

The signage state it is one of a group of five expermental cannons made for the Union Army in 1864. Has anyone heard of these five cannons?

 

[UCVRelics]

After doing some digging in my ordnance books this is what I have come up with. In 1863 the US Army wanted a Parrott gun that was lighter and could fire further then the 4.5 inch siege guns so Parrott cast 5 of these guns for testing. It was shorter, lighter and could fire a round further than an 1861 4.2 inch Parrott. The one you posted is the only one of the 5 to remain.

4.2inch experimental Army Parrott rifle Nominal length: 125.1 inches. Rifling: 5-groove right hand twist. Weight: 3,610 pounds. Only one is known survivor of five made in 1864. It was designed to fit the same carriage as the 4.5-inch Ordnance Rifle.

4.2 inch Parrott rifle (30-pdr Parrott rifle)

25 lb. (shell)

4,200 lb.

132 in.

6,700 yd. @ 25°

 

[major bill]

After doing some digging in my ordnance books this is what I have come up with. In 1863 the US Army wanted a Parrott gun that was lighter and could fire further then the 4.5 inch siege guns so Parrott cast 5 of these guns for testing. It was shorter, lighter and could fire a round further than an 1861 4.2 inch Parrott. The one you posted is the only one of the 5 to remain.

4.2inch experimental Army Parrott rifle Nominal length: 125.1 inches. Rifling: 5-groove right hand twist. Weight: 3,610 pounds. Only one is known survivor of five made in 1864. It was designed to fit the same carriage as the 4.5-inch Ordnance Rifle.

4.2 inch Parrott rifle (30-pdr Parrott rifle)

25 lb. (shell)

4,200 lb.

132 in.

6,700 yd. @ 25°

Interesting information. Years ago I launched my kayak from Island Park in Eaton Rapids and seen these two cannons but did not pay much attention to them. Today as I passed through Eaton Rapids I was an hour early so after I stopped for coffee. I still had a half hour to kill. I remembered that the park had a couple Civil War cannon so I walked across the bridge to look at them. I had no idea who did the research for the signage cannon so was uncertain of the accuracy.

 

[LHR Lead]

After doing some digging in my ordnance books this is what I have come up with. In 1863 the US Army wanted a Parrott gun that was lighter and could fire further then the 4.5 inch siege guns so Parrott cast 5 of these guns for testing. It was shorter, lighter and could fire a round further than an 1861 4.2 inch Parrott. The one you posted is the only one of the 5 to remain.

4.2inch experimental Army Parrott rifle Nominal length: 125.1 inches. Rifling: 5-groove right hand twist. Weight: 3,610 pounds. Only one is known survivor of five made in 1864. It was designed to fit the same carriage as the 4.5-inch Ordnance Rifle.

4.2 inch Parrott rifle (30-pdr Parrott rifle)

25 lb. (shell)

4,200 lb.

132 in.

6,700 yd. @ 25°

Interesting that your books say that they wanted a lighter gun. The following comes from the procurement order for six guns dated 8 Oct, 1863:
"...three pairs of guns to be made in strict accordance with the following directions: each pair to be made of the same metal at the same time and place, under precisely the same circumstances. One of the guns of each pair to be a 30-pounder banded gun to fit the present 4.5-inch siege carriage; the other gun of each pair to be similar in outline to the 4.5-inch gun but also bored to 4.2 inches, and weight of each no to exceed 3,550 pounds. One pair of the guns to be rifled with uniform twist; the other with a gaining twist like the present 30-pounder... The third pair of guns will not be bored, but be left unfinished subject to such orders as may be given on the subject hereafter." The first two pairs of guns were delivered, along with one of the last pair.

There are documented weights for three guns from this order: foundry no. 405 (3,590 lbs), 407 (3,610 lbs) both banded, and 806 (3,560 lbs.) The data lets us assume the Eaton Rapids gun is foundry number 407, inspected by DWF on 1 March, 1864, delivered on 16 July, 1864.
The other two guns delivered where "similar in outline to the 4.5-inch gun", foundry numbers 416 & 421. Both were inspected by RMH on 23 July, 1864, but not delivered until after the end of the Civil War on 6 September, 1865. You can't help but wonder if they are out there masquerading as a 4.5in Ordnance rifle.

The 4.5-inch Ordnance rifle weighs about 3,550 pounds, the 4.2 inch Army Parrott weighs in at about 4,200 pounds. The Navy version weighs in at around 3,500 pounds, so they already had a "lighter" version of the Parrott. Was this a case of trying out different rifling or perhaps providing technology to West Point to cast better cannon?

 

[UCVRelics]

Interesting that your books say that they wanted a lighter gun. The following comes from the procurement order for six guns dated 8 Oct, 1863:
"...three pairs of guns to be made in strict accordance with the following directions: each pair to be made of the same metal at the same time and place, under precisely the same circumstances. One of the guns of each pair to be a 30-pounder banded gun to fit the present 4.5-inch siege carriage; the other gun of each pair to be similar in outline to the 4.5-inch gun but also bored to 4.2 inches, and weight of each no to exceed 3,550 pounds. One pair of the guns to be rifled with uniform twist; the other with a gaining twist like the present 30-pounder... The third pair of guns will not be bored, but be left unfinished subject to such orders as may be given on the subject hereafter." The first two pairs of guns were delivered, along with one of the last pair.

There are documented weights for three guns from this order: foundry no. 405 (3,590 lbs), 407 (3,610 lbs) both banded, and 806 (3,560 lbs.) The data lets us assume the Eaton Rapids gun is foundry number 407, inspected by DWF on 1 March, 1864, delivered on 16 July, 1864.
The other two guns delivered where "similar in outline to the 4.5-inch gun", foundry numbers 416 & 421. Both were inspected by RMH on 23 July, 1864, but not delivered until after the end of the Civil War on 6 September, 1865. You can't help but wonder if they are out there masquerading as a 4.5in Ordnance rifle.

The 4.5-inch Ordnance rifle weighs about 3,550 pounds, the 4.2 inch Army Parrott weighs in at about 4,200 pounds. The Navy version weighs in at around 3,500 pounds, so they already had a "lighter" version of the Parrott. Was this a case of trying out different rifling or perhaps providing technology to West Point to cast better cannon?

If it was inspected by Daniel Webster Flagler would it not be marked with DWF. Once they were inspected they were stamped and even though DWF was transferred in May of 64 to DC. Also, I should have said a lighter Parrott.

 

[Seduzal]

Thanks for sharing this awesome article and photos. Enjoyed it.

 

[major bill]

I did have a half hour to kill and was in town, so seeing this cannon was a good use of an extra half hour.

 

[Lubliner]

I did have a half hour to kill and was in town, so seeing this cannon was a good use of an extra half hour.

Seeing this thread was a likewise delight. I can only voice amazement. Thanks,
Lubliner.