Breckinridge Etching, correct thread?

[JPK Huson 1863]

Is this a 'relic'? Of course not in the usual sense, I realize that- and I'm not asking for whatever the value would be. It'd be the historical sense of the word, since he isn't wearing any in the way of a military uniform and it's from before he put his Southern foot down ( physically, anyway, he was pretty vocal ) and left Washington. I also could not find where to post it other than 'relic'- not a photo.

This was hilariously behind a flower print. I said hilariously in another thread because the ancestor who commited this act was smack in the middle of one of the most commited Union families ever on the planet, from New York. I'd been intending on using an old oval frame for something else, dismantled the whole thing and found this! They must have had it displayed when he was VP, he decamped and POOF, behind the flowers he went. It's one of the common ones by Buttre, nothing at all rare- there's probably a zillion of these out there, just thought I'd post it for anyone who likes him as a general. I was thinking of sticking him back up on my Civil War wall, but not sure- the other relatives still might not sit well with him there even after 150 years.

 

[donna]

Thanks for posting and what a great find. I am a big fan of John C. Breckinridge. He was a fine general, and statesman a native son from Kentucky.

 

[Glorybound]

Is this a 'relic'? Of course not in the usual sense, I realize that- and I'm not asking for whatever the value would be. It'd be the historical sense of the word, since he isn't wearing any in the way of a military uniform and it's from before he put his Southern foot down ( physically, anyway, he was pretty vocal ) and left Washington. I also could not find where to post it other than 'relic'- not a photo.

This was hilariously behind a flower print. I said hilariously in another thread because the ancestor who commited this act was smack in the middle of one of the most commited Union families ever on the planet, from New York. I'd been intending on using an old oval frame for something else, dismantled the whole thing and found this! They must have had it displayed when he was VP, he decamped and POOF, behind the flowers he went. It's one of the common ones by Buttre, nothing at all rare- there's probably a zillion of these out there, just thought I'd post it for anyone who likes him as a general. I was thinking of sticking him back up on my Civil War wall, but not sure- the other relatives still might not sit well with him there even after 150 years.

View attachment 3671

Nice photo JPK, thanks for the post. Yes, this thread is fine.

Lee

 

[donna]

From the picture you posted, it looks like Breckinridge's signature. Is it copied or does it look like an original? If it is original signature could be worth a lot more. He would be a collector item to Confederate collectors or Kentucky collectors. I still think it great you have it.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I just assumed the signature was also part of the etching- I don't know much about these things. I remember only knowing he was Buchanon's VP, and a very good Confederate general so also assumed it was why he'd been stuck behind the flowers. He'd have gone there if he'd been a bad Confederate, I am sure, it's just history that he was extremly competant. Of course, coming from THAT presidency maybe anyone would hide behind a potted plant, huh?

 

[donna]

I looked up your picture. It is titled John C. Breckinridge/ daguerreotype by Brady; engraved by J.C. Buttre. There is one at Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division. It says it was created between 1850 and 1890.

In looking up John Chester Buttre, he was born in 1821 in New York and died 1893 in New Jersey. He was an American steel-plate engraver and lithographer responsible for some 3000 portraits of American political, naval and military persons. He published a book "The American Portrait Gallery which was 3 volumes (1880-1881). He is known for his full-length portrait of President James Buchana in 1858. As you stated, John C. Breckinridge was Vice-President with Buchanan.

His originals have been in several auctions and are owned by museums and historical societies. They go for a variety of prices depending on the subject.

This probably is a reproduction. Can you determine the age, from the age of house, the wall paper, and residents at time house built and wallpaper put up. Just some interesting trivia.

Facts on Buttre from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/john_Chester_Buttre

The exact print you have can be found in goggle John C. Breckinridge engraved by J.C. Buttre.

 

[James B White]

This probably is a reproduction. Can you determine the age, from the age of house, the wall paper, and residents at time house built and wallpaper put up. Just some interesting trivia.

Just curious what makes you think that. My first instinct is that it would be original, used as a backing for the other picture decades ago.

 

[donna]

It could be an original. That is why I asked age of house, who had the house, when wall paper was put up. As you say from the picture it looks like an original. But I think someone who knows J.C. Buttre's work would have to look at it. If an original it is a great find. I read where reproductions are out there of a lot of his work. However, if this dates back to 1850- 1890 period , it could be an original. If it was mine I would take it to a dealer in prints of this time period and see what they say.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Thanks so much for the info on Buttre! 3,000 Holy heck, can you imagine??? That's prolific, whoa! 3,000 works of art, and I'd have to say his time for working as an artist was not incredibly long, given the date of his death. Did he sleep ever I wonder?

Oh, I'm pretty sure it would be an original- for a few reasons. The biggest one would be you're talking to a family who had less than no interest in anything south of the M and D line beyond wearing cotton clothing, and I mean on all sides for generations upon generations. If there's a rendering of Breckinridge floating around, no one went out of their way to re-purchase something in later years, it'd have been from when he was a current figure politically. That family was extremely political, or were until some time after the Civil War. I know which house it's been sitting in since it was stuck behind the flowers, too, in Burdett, NY, before that in one in Dundee and before that it was in Washington, DC with the family there. We're just lucky in that the family stuck around the same area, kept amazing records and kept passing old dusty attics down. Having said that, no one can ever attest to authentic items if one is not an expert ( me ) so yes, good to have these old bits and pieces inspected by one of course! I have a GAR button/lapel pin ( not a pin, I don't know what to call it, it pushes through the lapel ) which I DID have authenticated - only because BOY would I have been crushed had it not been real. I pretty much knew it was- have a photo of my grgrgrandfather wearing it. But you never know- Mom found it floating around in a box recently. Just checking!

I think he was much better looking in uniform, though. I looked up other renderings and photos of him- this doesn't quite do the man justice, does it?

 

[donna]

He always was a good looking man to me. I do like his pictures in uniform. I should do thread on him. I don't know if anyone has.

You sound like you have some great pieces. I have a ring from Civil War era. I got it from my Grandmother. The stone is amethyst with a rose engraved in gold in the middle of the stone. The setting is 24 k gold. It is a true heirloom for me.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Oh my, that ring sounds like an amazing treasure. Yes-with family things I think people are insane to let some of them out of their hands the way they do sometimes. I mean, some, I could see letting go to others whoI knew would genuinely treasure them. Not museums, actually-we did that once, the item is still sitting in the archives. Most? Nope. I watched 'Pawn Stars', someone took their grgrgrandfather's Civil War field DESK to sell- all the muster rolls in it, everything. He wasn't destitute, just wanted the cash. Talk about a family treasure-really, beyond price. Besides- you'd get 1/2 the worth at a darn pawn shop, besides I think turning your relative over 10 times in his grave!! I did cry when Mom found that GAR pin-thought it was lost for good.

I JUST saw a pic of Breckinridge in a book, from when he was older, must have been towards the end of the war because he's bedecked with honors it looks like. He became extremely disginguished, albeit looks a little sad I think. I guess by the end of the war, so many saw so MUCH tragedy and loss- probably couldn't help but show it. If you start a tread I'll scan that one although I notice the photos from books have a kind of mealy quality to them.

 

[donna]

I don't know how some of the people sell their treasures from the War or other periods unless you really needed the money. It would be better to donate to a museum or group who would really appreciate them and display them. Selling them to a pawn shop is beyond me.

I do love the ring. I wear it on occasions. It is very small and fits my pinkie finger. I do get lots of compliments on it. One of my greatest treasures from my grandmother.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I see these things, especially photographs, in antique shops! Here's one- I was looking up something, found a blurb on-line about an ancestor. It transpires it was copied from a darn diary someone had bought in an antique mall. I do know who sold it also- a distant relative I could just strangle! I would have bought the thing myself, if I'd known that person was going to go unload treasures to the higest bidder, Good Grief!I really do understand if perhaps people need the money-silly to literally starve surrounded by gilt, as it were. But- if one has the chance to preserve sheer heritage and history- it's kind of a responsibility. That ring of yours will only mean more to your family as the generations go by and history is more distant.

 

[Wickman Historical]

@JPK--I searched around for a bit on the internet regarding your engraving, and found that the Getty has one in their collection that was printed in 1870. Here is a link
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...e-president-of-u-s-1857-61-news-photo/3245745
An expert on those prints may be able to date it exactly, but it looks like it was produced for several years as Donna mentioned above. I would guess that the photo was taken while he was vice president or shortly thereafter and that the print would date to roughly that same timeframe. The signature is part of the print.

 

[16thVA]

Hi, it is an engraving on steel done after the daguerreotype and the signature is part of the print. The men who did this type of work were extremely skilled, you could find very few people today who could equal their work. The engraver, as you see, was J. C. Buttre. I did a search using his name and this is the result-

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&outpu....,cf.osb&fp=c046483b3e0e4ca3&biw=1024&bih=682

This is the Wikipedia article on steel engraving.

Most books before the invention of photography would have been illustrated either by woodcut or engravings (both copper and steel). There was also the mezzotint.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Thank you both! Boy, do I get lost when there are links to click on. I've ignored an awful lot of work here while following these since I joined this forum. You know what happens? It transpires most interesting links ALSO have interesting links, drat them. You could spend all day saying 'Whoa, look at this, I never knew that!'. I do too- fatal, the ones included above, I guarantee it.

'Cabell', never knew that was the 'C' in John C. Breckinridge. You could guess all week long and never come up with that!