Bragg Braxton Bragg or Leonidas Polk?

[General Butterfield]

Braxton Bragg or Leonidas Polk?

The long running feud between Braxton Bragg and Leonidas Polk helped to doom the Confederate efforts in the West. Both men came to see the other as an obstacle to success and the reason for failure. At the time public opinion seemed to have been largely on the side of Polk, a favorite of Jefferson Davis and a popular figure with the troops. Bragg was largely disliked and seen as something of an incompetent tyrant. Post war the reputation of these two men has sunk, with them regularly being listed together on worst generals lists.

So ill ask the question is this right? Do you prefer Bragg or Polk? If Polk had of supported him could Bragg have had more success? Was Polk right to try and have Bragg removed?

I'm in the Bragg camp myself. While I wouldn't call Bragg a great commanders he certainly wasn't one of the worst. On the offense he had near victories at Perryville, Stones River and won at Chickamauga. He also showed himself able on the defense at the late war battle of Wyse Forks. I don't have much positive to say about Polk. His efforts in Kentucky and at all of Bragg's major battles seem to have been largely negative. Most famously at Chickamauga Bragg claimed had Polk attacked on time and with force "our independence might have been won." His anti Bragg plotting also helped to turn other generals like Hardee against Bragg. However I do find it interesting that Polk was so popular with the men, would like to look more into why, and if some of the criticisms of him are overblown.

A few quotes I pulled for added effect:

"Polk, one of Bragg's most persistent enemies, never developed cordial or respectful relations, although they served together from March 1862 until Bragg relieved him of corps command in October 1863. Polk's willful tendency to ignore orders, his slackness in discharging responsible duties and his bitter criticism of Bragg expressed in correspondence with his longtime personal friend, the president of the Confederacy, severely hampered Bragg's effectiveness as a commander."
Braxton Bragg: The Most Hated Man in the Confederacy by Earl Hess

From wiki on Polk: "My pen and ability is inadequate to the task of doing his memory justice. Every private soldier loved him. Second to Stonewall Jackson, his loss was the greatest the South ever sustained. When I saw him there dead, I felt that I had lost a friend whom I had ever loved and respected, and that the South had lost one of her best and greatest Generals."
Private Sam Watkins, Co. Aytch

 

[chucksr]

I think it is a judgment call that is just about even--trying to turn either of these two sow's ears into silk purses is impossible given their histories.

 

[nitrofd]

Braxton Bragg or Leonidas Polk?

View attachment 156075 View attachment 156076

The long running feud between Braxton Bragg and Leonidas Polk helped to doom the Confederate efforts in the West. Both men came to see the other as an obstacle to success and the reason for failure. At the time public opinion seemed to have been largely on the side of Polk, a favorite of Jefferson Davis and a popular figure with the troops. Bragg was largely disliked and seen as something of an incompetent tyrant. Post war the reputation of these two men has sunk, with them regularly being listed together on worst generals lists.

So ill ask the question is this right? Do you prefer Bragg or Polk? If Polk had of supported him could Bragg have had more success? Was Polk right to try and have Bragg removed?

I'm in the Bragg camp myself. While I wouldn't call Bragg a great commanders he certainly wasn't one of the worst. On the offense he had near victories at Perryville, Stones River and won at Chickamauga. He also showed himself able on the defense at the late war battle of Wyse Forks. I don't have much positive to say about Polk. His efforts in Kentucky and at all of Bragg's major battles seem to have been largely negative. Most famously at Chickamauga Bragg claimed had Polk attacked on time and with force "our independence might have been won." His anti Bragg plotting also helped to turn other generals like Hardee against Bragg. However I do find it interesting that Polk was so popular with the men, would like to look more into why, and if some of the criticisms of him are overblown.

A few quotes I pulled for added effect:

"Polk, one of Bragg's most persistent enemies, never developed cordial or respectful relations, although they served together from March 1862 until Bragg relieved him of corps command in October 1863. Polk's willful tendency to ignore orders, his slackness in discharging responsible duties and his bitter criticism of Bragg expressed in correspondence with his longtime personal friend, the president of the Confederacy, severely hampered Bragg's effectiveness as a commander."
Braxton Bragg: The Most Hated Man in the Confederacy by Earl Hess

From wiki: "My pen and ability is inadequate to the task of doing his memory justice. Every private soldier loved him. Second to Stonewall Jackson, his loss was the greatest the South ever sustained. When I saw him there dead, I felt that I had lost a friend whom I had ever loved and respected, and that the South had lost one of her best and greatest Generals."
Private Sam Watkins, Co. Aytch

Polk wasn't good at anything and that includes being a bishop.in his mind it was only his way and nothing else really mattered.

 

[uaskme]

Who does a Bishop get his orders from? God, a few steps above Bragg. No wonder there was a breakdown in Command.

 

[rpkennedy]

For all of his faults, Bragg was a competent planner but was terrible at execution, partly due to his personality conflicts.

Polk was incompetent at just about everything he did. The most notable thing about his military career is the manner of his death.

Ryan

 

[Will Carry]

Bragg was a tactical genius! If they had followed his orders at Stones River, they would have driven Rosecrans back to Nashville with his tail between his legs! If the Rebels could have driven the Yankees back on the Union left flank, stopped the counter attack and set up artillery, the Union army would have woken the next morning looking up at the barrels of Southern Cannon. They would have been force to leave the field. Bragg's lieutenants did not obey his orders, but Stone's River,Day one, was one of his best days.
I was halfway kidding! Yet, Had the cavalry scouted the Union left flank, the infantry stopped at the top of the hill and layed down on the back side and the limbered artillery assaulted With the infantry? OK it doesn't work on most historians play book. BUT! He could have kicked Rosecrans's Bueatoks. One chance in one hundred. The only thing is that Bragg may not have known was what his men could do. Johnston did. That is why his retreat from Chattanooga was so important. Johnston showed his brilliance on his retreat from Chattanooga. He knew the war was over.............................................

 

[WJC]

Braxton Bragg or Leonidas Polk?
"Polk, one of Bragg's most persistent enemies, never developed cordial or respectful relations, although they served together from March 1862 until Bragg relieved him of corps command in October 1863. Polk's willful tendency to ignore orders, his slackness in discharging responsible duties and his bitter criticism of Bragg expressed in correspondence with his longtime personal friend, the president of the Confederacy, severely hampered Bragg's effectiveness as a commander."
Braxton Bragg: The Most Hated Man in the Confederacy by Earl Hess

Frankly, I'm not a fan of either. From what I've read, Polk did, indeed, ignore orders, was complacent in discharging his duties and actively undermined his superior. Those are intolerable.
Based on that, my choice is Bragg.

 

[BillO]

They hated each other and considered the other as incompetent at best. IMO they were both spot on.

 

[General Butterfield]

Bragg was a tactical genius! If they had followed his orders at Stones River, they would have driven Rosecrans back to Nashville with his tail between his legs! If the Rebels could have driven the Yankees back on the Union left flank, stopped the counter attack and set up artillery, the Union army would have woken the next morning looking up at the barrels of Southern Cannon. They would have been force to leave the field. Bragg's lieutenants did not obey his orders, but Stone's River,Day one, was one of his best days.

I agree with this sentiment. Bragg's attack on December 31st was very effective, Hess compares it to Jackson's at Chancellorsville. Had Bragg been fighting lesser generals than Rosecrans-Thomas or had better subordinates than Polk-Breckinridge he may have succeeded.

 

[Jamieva]

Bragg because Polk was incompetent and insubordinate.

 

[mofederal]

Neither one was a rocket scientist, and they remind me of little kids fighting. One died and the other couldn't find the tar pits. They both caused their own problems. Polk didn't like Bragg to the point of insubordination and Bragg inspired hatred wherever he went, competence or not as a planner it was not enough. He could not execute his plans. At least people liked Polk for whatever reason. Sam Watkins liked him a lot. So did others.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

For all Bragg's faults, I would take him over Polk all day every day. Polk's only qualifications for being a general were having graduated West Point decades earlier (without serving - he immediately resigned from the Army after graduation) and being a buddy of Jeff Davis.

 

[nitrofd]

Polk was the best general in the Union Army.

 

[JeffBrooks]

Bragg didn't do himself any favors, but Polk deserves the fair greater shame of blame for their dispute.

 

[Saruman]

Braxton Bragg or Leonidas Polk?

View attachment 156075 View attachment 156076

The long running feud between Braxton Bragg and Leonidas Polk helped to doom the Confederate efforts in the West. Both men came to see the other as an obstacle to success and the reason for failure. At the time public opinion seemed to have been largely on the side of Polk, a favorite of Jefferson Davis and a popular figure with the troops. Bragg was largely disliked and seen as something of an incompetent tyrant. Post war the reputation of these two men has sunk, with them regularly being listed together on worst generals lists.

So ill ask the question is this right? Do you prefer Bragg or Polk? If Polk had of supported him could Bragg have had more success? Was Polk right to try and have Bragg removed?

I'm in the Bragg camp myself. While I wouldn't call Bragg a great commanders he certainly wasn't one of the worst. On the offense he had near victories at Perryville, Stones River and won at Chickamauga. He also showed himself able on the defense at the late war battle of Wyse Forks. I don't have much positive to say about Polk. His efforts in Kentucky and at all of Bragg's major battles seem to have been largely negative. Most famously at Chickamauga Bragg claimed had Polk attacked on time and with force "our independence might have been won." His anti Bragg plotting also helped to turn other generals like Hardee against Bragg. However I do find it interesting that Polk was so popular with the men, would like to look more into why, and if some of the criticisms of him are overblown.

A few quotes I pulled for added effect:

"Polk, one of Bragg's most persistent enemies, never developed cordial or respectful relations, although they served together from March 1862 until Bragg relieved him of corps command in October 1863. Polk's willful tendency to ignore orders, his slackness in discharging responsible duties and his bitter criticism of Bragg expressed in correspondence with his longtime personal friend, the president of the Confederacy, severely hampered Bragg's effectiveness as a commander."
Braxton Bragg: The Most Hated Man in the Confederacy by Earl Hess

From wiki on Polk: "My pen and ability is inadequate to the task of doing his memory justice. Every private soldier loved him. Second to Stonewall Jackson, his loss was the greatest the South ever sustained. When I saw him there dead, I felt that I had lost a friend whom I had ever loved and respected, and that the South had lost one of her best and greatest Generals."
Private Sam Watkins, Co. Aytch

I prefer Polk. Bragg managed to alienate all his senior subordinates - Hardee, Buckner, Breckinridge, Longstreet, DH Hill, Cleburne, Cheatham, Forrest etc., so clearly was not the right man for the job. Polk only had difficulties working with Bragg (understandable) and Pillow (understandable). Other generals, such as Hardee, Buckner, Breckinridge, Cleburne, Cheatham, Forrest, Sidney Johnston, Joe Johnston etc., held Polk in high esteem. Bragg's flaws as a commander were numerous and fatal, and he should have been relieved after he lost the confidence of the army during the 1862 Kentucky Campaign. Polk did have some bright moments - like defeating Grant at Belmont, and thwarting Sherman's 1863 Meridian/Mobile/Selma Campaign.

 

[General Butterfield]

I prefer Polk. Bragg managed to alienate all his senior subordinates - Hardee, Buckner, Breckinridge, Longstreet, DH Hill, Cleburne, Cheatham, Forrest etc., so clearly was not the right man for the job. Polk only had difficulties working with Bragg (understandable) and Pillow (understandable). Other generals, such as Hardee, Buckner, Breckinridge, Cleburne, Cheatham, Forrest, Sidney Johnston, Joe Johnston etc., held Polk in high esteem. Bragg's flaws as a commander were numerous and fatal, and he should have been relieved after he lost the confidence of the army during the 1862 Kentucky Campaign. Polk did have some bright moments - like defeating Grant at Belmont, and thwarting Sherman's 1863 Meridian/Mobile/Selma Campaign.

Thanks for giving the Pro Polk side of things.

 

[nitrofd]

I prefer Polk. Bragg managed to alienate all his senior subordinates - Hardee, Buckner, Breckinridge, Longstreet, DH Hill, Cleburne, Cheatham, Forrest etc., so clearly was not the right man for the job. Polk only had difficulties working with Bragg (understandable) and Pillow (understandable). Other generals, such as Hardee, Buckner, Breckinridge, Cleburne, Cheatham, Forrest, Sidney Johnston, Joe Johnston etc., held Polk in high esteem. Bragg's flaws as a commander were numerous and fatal, and he should have been relieved after he lost the confidence of the army during the 1862 Kentucky Campaign. Polk did have some bright moments - like defeating Grant at Belmont, and thwarting Sherman's 1863 Meridian/Mobile/Selma Campaign.

Polk was a major reason for loosing the Kentucky Campaign with all his mis-information and refusal to move.

 

[István.AT]

I'd rank Polk third on my personal "Worst Confederate generals" list, right after Floyd and Pillow.
Bragg had his share of drawbacks and failures, but Polk tainted almost everything he touched - starting with Kentucky-1861, through Kentucky-1862 and Stones River to Chikamauga. Incompetent, disobedient (almost to the point of inciting a riot - IMO, his letters to Hardee during Tullahoma campaign would qualify for a death by hanging in some European armies), very headstrong and charismatic. And the latter made the matter much, much worse.

 

[highplainsdrifter59]

Polk was only good at catching cannon balls. Well, he only did that once but he was successful his one and only time.

 

[nitrofd]

Polk was only good at catching cannon balls. Well, he only did that once but he was successful his one and only time.

100% batting average,you can't beat that.