Davis Bragg and Davis

Rebelsoul

Corporal
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Location
Alabamian living in Montana
Why did Jefferson Davis hold on to Braxton Bragg as long as he did ? I know they were friends but couldn't he see what an incompetent boob he was in the field ? The man didn't get along with anybody. He might have been a good administrator but as far as running an army he was terrible. Surely there were better field commanders than him in the western armies. I could name a few. Somebody please enlighten me.
 
Why did Jefferson Davis hold on to Braxton Bragg as long as he did ? I know they were friends but couldn't he see what an incompetent boob he was in the field ? The man didn't get along with anybody. He might have been a good administrator but as far as running an army he was terrible. Surely there were better field commanders than him in the western armies. I could name a few. Somebody please enlighten me.
Good question. Per the biography "Jefferson Davis American" by William Cooper Davis twice visited the AoT to investigate the leadership issues.
Davis's dilemma was who should he replace Bragg with?
We know the answer which was Johnston and Hood. We know they were not a vast improvement over Bragg.
Could another Confederate general of preformed better then Bragg is a classic unknown question.
Leftyhunter
 
Good question. Per the biography "Jefferson Davis American" by William Cooper Davis twice visited the AoT to investigate the leadership issues.
Davis's dilemma was who should he replace Bragg with?
We know the answer which was Johnston and Hood. We know they were not a vast improvement over Bragg.
Could another Confederate general of preformed better then Bragg is a classic unknown question.
Leftyhunter
How about Patrick Cleburne ? The man was a very talented officer, I think he had what it takes. Also very inspiring to his troops.
 
How about Patrick Cleburne ? The man was a very talented officer, I think he had what it takes. Also very inspiring to his troops.
That point as been raised before. Its a another classic known unknown question has Donald Rumsfeld would say.
The standard answer is Cleburne was somewhat of a junior ranking officer. Davis appears to only allow West Point educated officers to command armies. Celburne was a former British Army Sergeant so Davis would not co sider that has an adequate background to command an army.
Lots of what ifs . We simply will never know if any Confederate general eould of done a better job then those generals that actually commanded the AoT.
Leftyhunter
 
That point as been raised before. Its a another classic known unknown question has Donald Rumsfeld would say.
The standard answer is Cleburne was somewhat of a junior ranking officer. Davis appears to only allow West Point educated officers to command armies. Celburne was a former British Army Sergeant so Davis would not co sider that has an adequate background to command an army.
Lots of what ifs . We simply will never know if any Confederate general eould of done a better job then those generals that actually commanded the AoT.
Leftyhunter
Yes I realize West point officers and also seniority had precedence, but I would have also thought the success of the cause would have been a priority over politics or friendship. If I would have been in charge that would have been the case. Let the chips fall where they may later.
 
After reading more about him I do agree that he was not as bad as some believe but, I also think he could not, or would not get along with his fellow officers. If you don't have the support or the willingness of the people under you then it becomes very hard to accomplish anything. And I also realize that some under him weren't the best material also.
 
"Bragg was an officer of undoubted qualities. He was hardworking, meticulous, detail-oriented, and extremely self-disciplined. The intense way he did everything led him to burn out in his job of guiding the main Confederate field army in the West. Bragg also held the world up to his own standard and had little regard for those who did not meet that very high mark. He had a strong tendency to act with energy and aggression when dealing with tactical problems–his actions at Perryville, Stones River, Tullahoma, and Chickamauga indicate he was by no means afraid to attack the enemy. In the beginning of his tenure as commander of the main Confederate army in the west, at least, he also planned bold strategic offensives. Bragg's chief failure in the Civil War lay on the personal level rather than in the military sphere. He saw life in black-and-white terms, had scant ability to accept the complexities to be found in others, and possessed a stubborn streak that served him ill in his relations with subordinates. He had no tact in dealing with newspaper correspondents and only clumsily tried to manipulate his public image or ingratiate himself with politicians. If not for Jefferson Davis's keen appreciation for his talents, Bragg would have had no important supporter in Richmond. When Bragg unwisely began to challenge his generals to demonstrate whether they supported him, his effectiveness rapidly declined. Their frank admission that he ought to be replaced merely sparked the stubbornness in him. Bragg desperately held on to a command that he sometimes wanted to give up, out of sheer determination to impose the sort of discipline on others he demanded of himself. This course of action benefited no one in the end. Despite this, Bragg retained the support of far more men in his army than historians tend to admit. His record of success while shaping the Army of Tennessee and leading it longer than any other individual was severely tarnished and corrupted by the controversies that erupted from his ill-advised dealings with recalcitrant officers. Bragg was not responsible for Confederate defeat, nor was he a monster or an imbecile. It is true he had some glaring weaknesses, but he also had admirable strengths. His impact on history was mixed but important, and it is time to attempt a balanced view of it." [Earl Hess, Braxton Bragg: The Most Hated Man of the Confederacy, pp. xix-xx]

A strict disciplinarian, Bragg was successful in his first stint as commander of a confederate force in Pensacola. "He was in his element as a commander at Pensacola, responsible for a small enough army so that his personal stamp could be put on the men under his tutelage. Although a few of Bragg's subordinates resented his methods, most of them understood that they were necessary and became firm supporters of their commander. The same methods would be far more difficult to apply to a larger force, as Bragg would soon discover, but the Confederates had to work with incredibly raw material in forming a volunteer army at short notice, and Bragg's methods worked well." [Ibid., p. 27]

The soldiers he led at Pensacola would be among his most loyal supporters, along with his staff officers–those who saw him and interacted with him on a daily basis and who saw his tender side. Unfortunately, his subordinate commanders would prove to be less than the most reliable subordinates. Unlike what Robert E. Lee enjoyed in Virginia, Bragg had to contend with subordinate commanders who insubordinately disobeyed orders and rebelled against his command.

"Bragg was neither a hapless fool nor a brilliant general. He failed more often than succeeded in his Civil War career. He also was not the ogre who callously executed his own soldiers, nor was he friendless or cold toward his wife. Public opinion in and out of the army shaped Bragg's image, making of him 'the best-abused man in the world.' Most editors and newspaper correspondents were far too ready to brand him as incompetent, tyrannical, or marked by a lack of good fortune. In turn, Bragg did not know how to deal with them except with contempt. … He did not have the political savvy to pull strings except to call on Davis to support him in controversies with his subordinates. That was a rather crude and heavy-handed way of dealing with recalcitrant officers, and he could not apply it to newspaper correspondents." [Ibid., p. 266]
 
"Bragg was an officer of undoubted qualities. He was hardworking, meticulous, detail-oriented, and extremely self-disciplined. The intense way he did everything led him to burn out in his job of guiding the main Confederate field army in the West. Bragg also held the world up to his own standard and had little regard for those who did not meet that very high mark. He had a strong tendency to act with energy and aggression when dealing with tactical problems–his actions at Perryville, Stones River, Tullahoma, and Chickamauga indicate he was by no means afraid to attack the enemy. In the beginning of his tenure as commander of the main Confederate army in the west, at least, he also planned bold strategic offensives. Bragg's chief failure in the Civil War lay on the personal level rather than in the military sphere. He saw life in black-and-white terms, had scant ability to accept the complexities to be found in others, and possessed a stubborn streak that served him ill in his relations with subordinates. He had no tact in dealing with newspaper correspondents and only clumsily tried to manipulate his public image or ingratiate himself with politicians. If not for Jefferson Davis's keen appreciation for his talents, Bragg would have had no important supporter in Richmond. When Bragg unwisely began to challenge his generals to demonstrate whether they supported him, his effectiveness rapidly declined. Their frank admission that he ought to be replaced merely sparked the stubbornness in him. Bragg desperately held on to a command that he sometimes wanted to give up, out of sheer determination to impose the sort of discipline on others he demanded of himself. This course of action benefited no one in the end. Despite this, Bragg retained the support of far more men in his army than historians tend to admit. His record of success while shaping the Army of Tennessee and leading it longer than any other individual was severely tarnished and corrupted by the controversies that erupted from his ill-advised dealings with recalcitrant officers. Bragg was not responsible for Confederate defeat, nor was he a monster or an imbecile. It is true he had some glaring weaknesses, but he also had admirable strengths. His impact on history was mixed but important, and it is time to attempt a balanced view of it." [Earl Hess, Braxton Bragg: The Most Hated Man of the Confederacy, pp. xix-xx]

A strict disciplinarian, Bragg was successful in his first stint as commander of a confederate force in Pensacola. "He was in his element as a commander at Pensacola, responsible for a small enough army so that his personal stamp could be put on the men under his tutelage. Although a few of Bragg's subordinates resented his methods, most of them understood that they were necessary and became firm supporters of their commander. The same methods would be far more difficult to apply to a larger force, as Bragg would soon discover, but the Confederates had to work with incredibly raw material in forming a volunteer army at short notice, and Bragg's methods worked well." [Ibid., p. 27]

The soldiers he led at Pensacola would be among his most loyal supporters, along with his staff officers–those who saw him and interacted with him on a daily basis and who saw his tender side. Unfortunately, his subordinate commanders would prove to be less than the most reliable subordinates. Unlike what Robert E. Lee enjoyed in Virginia, Bragg had to contend with subordinate commanders who insubordinately disobeyed orders and rebelled against his command.

"Bragg was neither a hapless fool nor a brilliant general. He failed more often than succeeded in his Civil War career. He also was not the ogre who callously executed his own soldiers, nor was he friendless or cold toward his wife. Public opinion in and out of the army shaped Bragg's image, making of him 'the best-abused man in the world.' Most editors and newspaper correspondents were far too ready to brand him as incompetent, tyrannical, or marked by a lack of good fortune. In turn, Bragg did not know how to deal with them except with contempt. … He did not have the political savvy to pull strings except to call on Davis to support him in controversies with his subordinates. That was a rather crude and heavy-handed way of dealing with recalcitrant officers, and he could not apply it to newspaper correspondents." [Ibid., p. 266]

I'm adding Hess' book to my list to read. I'm interested especially on how he deals with Bragg's reputation for brutal and unnecessary executions of his own men.
 
Yes, I've been curious about that too. What I don't understand is if he was such a good commander, which I will admit he did win some fights, then why did so many of his officers stand against him ? I know he had a very abrasive personality but so did Stonewall Jackson at times, yet other than a few of his officers, A.P Hill and Richard Garnett come to mind, the majority of Jacksons men loved him. I don't think the same can be said for Bragg
 
William Wing Loring's clash with Jackson early in the war almost led to Jackson's resignation. Loring had contacted political superiors in Richmond complaining about Jackson. Jackson received an order from Richmond to bring Loring's troops back from where Jackson had left them at Romney. Jackson complied, then submitted his resignation. It took a lot of soothing to talk him into rescinding his resignation.

Richard S. Ewell once said he always expected he would receive an order from Jackson to assault the North Pole. Most of Jackson's subordinate commanders considered him to be crazy, but his success in the Valley campaign as well as his success in the Second Manassas campaign and at Chancellorsville overrode such views.

Nothing succeeds like success.
 
Yes I realize all of that, and yet it seems that even with all the personality clashes, Jackson could get a lot done with his men. I'm not denigrating the AoT, they had some terrific fighters in their army. I just don't un derstand why they couldn't seem to get their act together sometimes and how much the inability of Bragg and his officers to get along contributed to that.
 
Yes I realize West point officers and also seniority had precedence, but I would have also thought the success of the cause would have been a priority over politics or friendship. If I would have been in charge that would have been the case. Let the chips fall where they may later.
That's the problem Davis was commander in chief. Davis is no doubt a fascinating figure and has been the subject of many threads and debate on CWT over the years.
I have one thread "Did Davis have a strategic plan" which I can bump up if your interested.
I always argued Davis did the best he could with the resources at hand.
That does not mean Davis walked on water he had his issues.
Its IMO impossible to prove weather or not another general could if been more successful commanding the AOT. We do know that arguably they would of faced two if the best Union generals who commanded the AOC Generals Rosecrans and Thomas. Was Rosecrans one if the best Union generals? Plenty of debate about that.
Has @cash alluded to their has been recent scholarship that argues Bragg gets a bum rap. Again it's a debatable proposition.
Leftyhunter
 
William Wing Loring's clash with Jackson early in the war almost led to Jackson's resignation. Loring had contacted political superiors in Richmond complaining about Jackson. Jackson received an order from Richmond to bring Loring's troops back from where Jackson had left them at Romney. Jackson complied, then submitted his resignation. It took a lot of soothing to talk him into rescinding his resignation.

Richard S. Ewell once said he always expected he would receive an order from Jackson to assault the North Pole. Most of Jackson's subordinate commanders considered him to be crazy, but his success in the Valley campaign as well as his success in the Second Manassas campaign and at Chancellorsville overrode such views.

Nothing succeeds like success.
For those that don't know Confederate general Porter Alexander in his biography "Fighting for the Confederacy" has some interesting observations on Jackson.
Leftyhunter
 
I've read Alaxanders book,
That's the problem Davis was commander in chief. Davis is no doubt a fascinating figure and has been the subject of many threads and debate on CWT over the years.
I have one thread "Did Davis have a strategic plan" which I can bump up if your interested.
I always argued Davis did the best he could with the resources at hand.
That does not mean Davis walked on water he had his issues.
Its IMO impossible to prove weather or not another general could if been more successful commanding the AOT. We do know that arguably they would of faced two if the best Union generals who commanded the AOC Generals Rosecrans and Thomas. Was Rosecrans one if the best Union generals? Plenty of debate about that.
Has @cash alluded to their has been recent scholarship that argues Bragg gets a bum rap. Again it's a debatable proposition.
Leftyhunter
Yes I'd be interested in reading that thread. And I have read Alexander book.
 
Rebelsoul asked:

"Why did Jefferson Davis hold on to Braxton Bragg as long as he did?" I believe that Davis was too personally involved in the day to day operations of the Army of Tennessee. As a former military leader, Davis felt qualified and obligated I believe to share his expertise.

The Army of the Tennessee was the red headed stepchild of the Confederacy compared to the Army of Northern Virginia. Lee suffered far less Monday Morning Quaterbacking than Bragg, Johnston or Hood. Jefferson Davis had been combative at the Point and he continued this throughout career. He and Joseph Davis had created such a hatred that Mary Chestnut described it as a "religion."*

Glen Moore's paper listed below is an excellent treatise about the complicated and virulent interaction between these two men. As complicated as Bragg was I believe it not too be as convoluted as Davis/Johnston were.

I found a previous thread Joe Johnston and Jefferson Davis^ on a 2002 CivilWarTalk which is listed below and is very informative.
Regards David
*A Civil War Feud: Jefferson Davis Versus Joseph E Johnston by Glen Moore https://archives.columbusstate.edu/gah/1993/72-81.pdf ^https://civilwartalk.com/threads/joe-johnston-and-jefferson-davis.1032/
 
He could have appointed D.H. Hill as a replacement. But, then again, if a sour disposition and matrinet behaviour was the problem, then Hill wouldn't be much of an improvement over Bragg...
 
Last edited:
It is well known that Davis favored certain commanders (A.S. Johnston, Leonidas Polk, Braxton Bragg) and showed displeasure to others (P.G.T.Beauragard, Joe Johnston), regardless of individual competencies or flaws.
 

Learn About Us
About CivilWarTalk
Contact the Webmaster
Meet the Staff
Link to CivilWarTalk
Join Our Community
Register
Browse Forums
View Today's Discussions
Search the Forum
Get Help
FAQ
Student Guide
Forum Rules & Etiquette
Copyright / DMCA

     Contact Us CivilwarTalk on Facebook CivilWarTalk on YouTube CivilWarTalk on Twitter RSS Feed

Bringing the American Civil War and More to Life.
© 1999 - , CIVILWARTALK, LLC - Site Version 10.0

SlaveryTalk.com - SecessionTalk.com - CivilWarTalk.com - ReconstructionTalk.com
Back
Top