Battlefields on privately owned land

[Dilba]

I have identified a site where my ancestor was wounded and permanently disabled 19 September 1864 during the Third Battle of Winchester/Opequon Creek. It is just south of the Berryville Pike near I-81, and one of the last remaining undisturbed pieces of land in that immediate area. According to the Frederick County tax assessment map, the land is divided into seven parcels owned by two individuals. I sent letters to the owners two months ago explaining the situation and requesting permission to enter and explore the land. I've received no response. Perhaps it was wishful thinking. With the 150th anniversary of the battle approaching, I would very much like to visit. Has anyone experienced a similar situation? Any suggestions as to how I might reach out and get permission from the owners?

 

[Barrycdog]

Cassville, and Allatoona Pass has parts on privately owned land. Its always best to get permission. Maybe better to go by in person.

 

[28thNewYork]

If you haven't received a response in that long a time, you probably have already gotten your answer.

 

[frontrank2]

Maybe you could pay them a visit, present them with a small gift like a bottle of wine, and explain your situation and try to get their permission. But first, be certain they don't own any big, mean dogs.

 

[Rebforever]

I have identified a site where my ancestor was wounded and permanently disabled 19 September 1864 during the Third Battle of Winchester/Opequon Creek. It is just south of the Berryville Pike near I-81, and one of the last remaining undisturbed pieces of land in that immediate area. According to the Frederick County tax assessment map, the land is divided into seven parcels owned by two individuals. I sent letters to the owners two months ago explaining the situation and requesting permission to enter and explore the land. I've received no response. Perhaps it was wishful thinking. With the 150th anniversary of the battle approaching, I would very much like to visit. Has anyone experienced a similar situation? Any suggestions as to how I might reach out and get permission from the owners?

All of my searching for my G-Grand's footsteps I personally speak with them in person. To this date I have never been refused and have met some fine folks. The 52nd Va. wintered over at Somerville Ford on the Rapidan River '63-'64.
One land owner had a book the shows pictures of the folks that was camped on their place.

Personal visit will work. But NOT WITH A METAL DETECTOR!! They will gladly let you take pictures.
Good luck on your search.

 

[wilber6150]

They might think you are a relic hunter who wants to hunt ontheir land, best to go in person and reassure them that you would like to just see where your ancestor fought..

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

All too often, unfortunately. Until earlier this year, the epicenter of the Brandy Station battlefield was in private hands and owned by someone hostile to preservation. It was a nightmare.

The same holds true at Trevilian Station. There are four parcels totaling 70 acres that include most of the Union line of battle for the second day of the battle, and the folks who own that land are extremely hostile. There's a very busy highway and a very busy railroad on the other side of their property, meaning that you can interpret the fighting there without going on their land. She nevertheless once demanded that we leave--even though we were on the road and not her property--because she didn't want us looking at their house.

Fortunately, the situation at Brandy Station has changed. And the situation at Trevilian Station looks like it may change too.

 

[101combatvet]

This all sounds very familiar. I found a CW site which I wanted to have a look at. Got some insight on the owner from some locals, sounded like the kind of guy that anyone would like. Knocked on his door and no one answered, seemed as if someone was home at the time. Left a letter in their mailbox explaining my interest with contact information. They never responded.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Interestingly, right after making my post here, I then found this, which is truly happy news: http://www.freelancestar.com/previe...n-battle-site-is-being-restored/?cachereset=1

 

[unicornforge]

Perhaps our experience my provide insight into folks owning farms on battlefields.

From personal experience and from listening to experiences of my in-laws who lived on a farm, a family can become tired of dealing with people coming onto their land, resulting in a negative knee-jerk reaction. ... Imagine how you would feel if people periodically came to your house, drove donuts into your lawn, picked flowers from your flower beds, took firewood, and drove over plants in your garden? ..... Yes, my in-laws had people pick what the "visitors" thought were "wild flowers" that were deliberately planted along their driveway, people took wood placed as barriers to vehicles driving onto their fields, and farmers in general have learned to plant "field corn" along roads to protect their "sweet corn" from thieves,....too many instances to remember or write about ..... and lets not forget the con-artists who pretend to be other than what they are. One, rather unwashed gentleman in a rusty junker, claimed to be an employee of government conservation and wanted to set traps in our woods.

So my point is that sadly, the good and honest nice people who wish to visit where their relatives struggled and possibly died, may suffer from the multitude of negative experiences that the landowner is likely to have experienced.

 

[unicornforge]

I might also add that one local police chief told me that his main challenge in his job was dealing with city folks who came to the countryside and did everything, including but not limited to, harvesting crops for their dinner table, driving through crops, camping in crop fields, and even homesteading on someone else's farm land.

We used to have at least one vehicle each week come up our driveway and ask for some sort of freebee, or tell us that we were going to #$!! because we did not belong to whatever church they were members of. Now we keep the gates closed. The more determined ones pull up to the fence and ask for stuff, but at least they are on the other side of the fence.

Oh, and lets not forget that your insurance may not protect you from trespassers that come onto your land, hurt themselves, and then sue you.

So, yes there are reasons that people are concerned about letting visitors onto their private lands, especially the large numbers of visitors to battlefield areas.

 

[Dilba]

Good suggestion. But Winchester is a three hour drive from where I live. I'm hesitant to go that far without getting permission in advance.

 

[Dilba]

But NOT WITH A METAL DETECTOR!! They will gladly let you take pictures.
Good luck on your search.

Oops! I did mention a metal detector in the letters. But for the purpose of confirming that we are actually in the correct location, not strictly relic hunting. In retrospect, perhaps that wasn't a great idea.

 

[Dilba]

Perhaps our experience my provide insight into folks owning farms on battlefields.

From personal experience and from listening to experiences of my in-laws who lived on a farm, a family can become tired of dealing with people coming onto their land, resulting in a negative knee-jerk reaction. ... Imagine how you would feel if people periodically came to your house, drove donuts into your lawn, picked flowers from your flower beds, took firewood, and drove over plants in your garden? ..... Yes, my in-laws had people pick what the "visitors" thought were "wild flowers" that were deliberately planted along their driveway, people took wood placed as barriers to vehicles driving onto their fields, and farmers in general have learned to plant "field corn" along roads to protect their "sweet corn" from thieves,....too many instances to remember or write about ..... and lets not forget the con-artists who pretend to be other than what they are. One, rather unwashed gentleman in a rusty junker, claimed to be an employee of government conservation and wanted to set traps in our woods.

So my point is that sadly, the good and honest nice people who wish to visit where their relatives struggled and possibly died, may suffer from the multitude of negative experiences that the landowner is likely to have experienced.

You and others raise a great point. Although I think this situation is a little different. The land of interest in Winchester is vacant. It sits between an industrial park and a modern housing development, and directly across the street is a shopping center complete with Starbucks. The owners live several miles away. I can't imagine we'd be disturbing anyone, other than perhaps the baristas across the street.

 

[Rebforever]

You and others raise a great point. Although I think this situation is a little different. The land of interest in Winchester is vacant. It sits between an industrial park and a modern housing development, and directly across the street is a shopping center complete with Starbucks. The owners live several miles away. I can't imagine we'd be disturbing anyone, other than perhaps the baristas across the street.

Do you own Land? If you do, surely you can understand why one would not let folks roam around on it.
First off, it is very impolite without getting permission.
There will probably be a sign on it saying no trespassing or something to that nature.
Go to the Museum in Winchester and see if there is someone there that can help you.

 

[101combatvet]

Oops! I did mention a metal detector in the letters. But for the purpose of confirming that we are actually in the correct location, not strictly relic hunting. In retrospect, perhaps that wasn't a great idea.

Perhaps.

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

At Fredericksburg, the NPS guide explained that the Union soldiers who fought in the second battle had to pass through a narrow entrance at the top of Marye's Heights to get to the Plank Road. In order to march to Salem Church where he was captured, my GG Grandfather almost certainly passed that way. I stood at the spot for many long moments, imagining the scene, with goosebumps.

 

[CheathamHill]

Oops! I did mention a metal detector in the letters. But for the purpose of confirming that we are actually in the correct location, not strictly relic hunting. In retrospect, perhaps that wasn't a great idea.

ding ding ding. In the words of a popular video game from my childhood "Fatality"
The thought process immediately goes to "this guy is full of sh*t about his ancestor and wants to dig up my garden".
Never ever EVER bring that up in first contact.

 

[Dilba]

ding ding ding. In the words of a popular video game from my childhood "Fatality"
The thought process immediately goes to "this guy is full of sh*t about his ancestor and wants to dig up my garden".
Never ever EVER bring that up in first contact.

I'm not a digger or relic hunter. In fact, I've never used a metal detector before. But I enjoy talking to diggers about the stuff they've found, and wouldn't mind trying it once. I just figured a detector would be a great way to confirm I have the right spot. (But would also prob'ly want to keep anything cool I find since it's not NPS.) Live and learn.

 

[unicornforge]

Do you own Land? If you do, surely you can understand why one would not let folks roam around on it.
First off, it is very impolite without getting permission.
There will probably be a sign on it saying no trespassing or something to that nature.
Go to the Museum in Winchester and see if there is someone there that can help you.

I agree with Rebforever. The first thing that city-folk tell the police when they are caught trespassing, damaging, or stealing from farmland according to the Chief is "no one owns this land because it is not fenced in". What they used to say to us was "your gate was open". Please take my word for it, people don't want strangers wandering around their land without permission, even if their house is miles away.

We didn't put up No Trespassing and No Hunting signs because we were told by the Real Estate person that if we did the hunters would shoot our animals. So lack of signs does not mean anything.