Uniforms Artillery shell jackets

[Jack7171]

Im familiar with acw union shell jackets, and the different colored piping that each different discipline used, but were shell jackets worn in battle? Were soldiers issued sack coats, frock coats, shell jackets and great coats? And lastly,, are there any photos of artillery crews wearing shell jackets? I know "action shots" weren't a thing, but it seems like all the gun crew photos I see, they are either wearing sack or frock coats, but I haven't seen a gun crew wearing shell jackets. Photos must exist, and I'd to see them

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

The artillery, and by extension yellow cavalry, shell jackets were issued and worn in battle.

Just not often...

While many think them universal, they were not. Uniforms were issued every few months, and if one was issued it was worn, same as if an infantry fatigue sack coat was issued it was worn. Along with shell jackets that had no trim. It was up to the Quartermaster and what he had at the time. A lot of times, I bet it was a mix.

Here's the best photo I know of artillery in the field, except they were cavalrymen with their own attached cannon.

1st Arkansas Cavalry, (US) with their Mountain Howitzers. Shell jackets with no trim and sack coats, and the Sergeant behind the mounted officer with a trimmed shell jacket:

 

[Jack7171]

The artillery, and by extension yellow cavalry, shell jackets were issued and worn in battle.

Just not often...

While many think them universal, they were not. Uniforms were issued every few months, and if one was issued it was worn, same as if an infantry fatigue sack coat was issued it was worn. Along with shell jackets that had no trim. It was up to the Quartermaster and what he had at the time. A lot of times, I bet it was a mix.

Here's the best photo I know of artillery in the field, except they were cavalrymen with their own attached cannon.

1st Arkansas Cavalry, (US) with their Mountain Howitzers. Shell jackets with no trim and sack coats, and the Sergeant behind the mounted officer with a trimmed shell jacket:
View attachment 461222

Thx! I was unsure if shell jackets were intended to be a dress/parade uniform,, which obviously wasn't practical as the war drug on. I guess I keep thinking about west point and other military academies using shell jackets as a parade uniform,,and assumed it must have been so during the war

 

[major bill]

Thx! I was unsure if shell jackets were intended to be a dress/parade uniform,, which obviously wasn't practical as the war drug on. I guess I keep thinking about west point and other military academies using shell jackets as a parade uniform,,and assumed it must have been so during the war

I do not believe West Point used shell jackets for parade dress. During the Civil War the Cadets would normally wore coatees for parades. At West Point 'riding' jackets were more for fatigue duties.

 

[Jack7171]

I do not believe West Point used shell jackets for parade dress. During the Civil War the Cadets would normally wore coatees for parades. At West Point 'riding' jackets were I

I was more referring to the style of jacket,, apologies for using the wrong term,,I'm not up on all the uniform lingo lol. I see the Cadets wearing the short waisted, stand up collar, fancier piped jackets that seem to look more like shell jackets,, the shell jackets just seemed awfully fancy for battle use, compared to sacks and frocks, which is why I was curious if they were intended for fancier occasions rather than the battlefield.

 

[Dan Kohli]

I think the term "well technically" might apply here. Because the shell jacket was for parade dress for the light artillery and cavalry, just as the frock coat was parade dress for the infantry and heavy artillery. The sack coat was intended as a fatigue dress. All were used in the field and combat, but it's dependent upon the unit, time, and place.

 

[Dan Kohli]

Here's the link to the Library of Congress''s Civil War photograph & print collection.

About this Collection | Civil War Glass Negatives and Related Prints | Digital Collections | Library of Congress

Provides access to about 7,000 different views and portraits made during the American Civil War (1861-1865) and its immediate aftermath. The images represent the original glass plate negatives made under the supervision of Mathew Brady and Alexander Gardner as well as the photographic prints in...

www.loc.gov

 

[Jack7171]

I do not believe West Point used shell jackets for parade dress. During the Civil War the Cadets would normally wore coatees for parades. At West Point 'riding' jackets were more for fatigue duties.

I just did a bit more googling on the subject, and low and behold, and older thread from several years ago popped up where you explained a bit more about shell jacket use, and showed 2 great books on uniforms,,,funny I didn't see that thread during my first search, but you pretty much answered my question with that 3 year old post! Thx!

 

[major bill]

I was more referring to the style of jacket,, apologies for using the wrong term,,I'm not up on all the uniform lingo lol. I see the Cadets wearing the short waisted, stand up collar, fancier piped jackets that seem to look more like shell jackets,, the shell jackets just seemed awfully fancy for battle use, compared to sacks and frocks, which is why I was curious if they were intended for fancier occasions rather than the battlefield.

Civil War era Cadet riding jackets were grey untrimmed jackets that were similar to roundabout jackets or late war Confederate jackets. The Cadets did wear frock coats on leave. What you are possibly seeing is coatee or tail coats (claw hammer tail coats). The style of tail coats worn by West Point at the time had fairly small tails and often the tail can not be seen in photos. Most, but not all, military academies, at the time of the Civil War would have worn coatees (claw hammer tail coats) during the Civil War for dress, for parades, and often for class.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Thx! I was unsure if shell jackets were intended to be a dress/parade uniform,, which obviously wasn't practical as the war drug on. I guess I keep thinking about west point and other military academies using shell jackets as a parade uniform,,and assumed it must have been so during the war

Oh shell jackets were NOT a parade uniform by any means. They were standard field issue for all branches and coatees and frocks being dress items, going all the way back to the days right after the Revolutionary War. The sack coat didn't come around till 1854. In fact, if you look at the Confederate Army, and Western Federal troops, (especially during the Vicksburg Campaign for Federals), they were by far the most common uniform of the war.

Outnumbering sack coats by a wide, wide margin. Especially in the CS Army, more so than US.

It was a pretty practical uniform in warmer weather, and very economic with no trim. Using modern cloth requirements for people, a frock coat takes 3 1/2 yards of cloth, sack coats 2 3/4 to 3, the shell jacket takes only 2 yards. Back then with how much smaller folks were, a shell used only around 1 1/4. More yards=more money. Plus they were quicker to make with less labor.

As far as costs to the taxpayer, unadorned shell jackets were a Godsend during the war. Plus, back then they were very fashionable. Also, Cadet coats are tailcoats. They just look like shell jackets from the front and have long tails in the back.

 

[Jack7171]

Oh shell jackets were NOT a parade uniform by any means. They were standard field issue for all branches and coatees and frocks being dress items, going all the way back to the days right after the Revolutionary War. The sack coat didn't come around till 1854. In fact, if you look at the Confederate Army, and Western Federal troops, (especially during the Vicksburg Campaign for Federals), they were by far the most common uniform of the war.

Outnumbering sack coats by a wide, wide margin. Especially in the CS Army, more so than US.

It was a pretty practical uniform in warmer weather, and very economic with no trim. Using modern cloth requirements for people, a frock coat takes 3 1/2 yards of cloth, sack coats 2 3/4 to 3, the shell jacket takes only 2 yards. Back then with how much smaller folks were, a shell used only around 1 1/4. More yards=more money. Plus they were quicker to make with less labor.

As far as costs to the taxpayer, unadorned shell jackets were a Godsend during the war. Plus, back then they were very fashionable. Also, Cadet coats are tailcoats. They just look like shell jackets from the front and have long tails in the back.

Had no idea they were so prolific, especially in battle! They certainly don't look comfortable, they look rather tight and stuffy

 

[Dan Kohli]

Oh shell jackets were NOT a parade uniform by any means. They were standard field issue for all branches and coatees and frocks being dress items, going all the way back to the days right after the Revolutionary War. The sack coat didn't come around till 1854. In fact, if you look at the Confederate Army, and Western Federal troops, (especially during the Vicksburg Campaign for Federals), they were by far the most common uniform of the war.

Outnumbering sack coats by a wide, wide margin. Especially in the CS Army, more so than US.

It was a pretty practical uniform in warmer weather, and very economic with no trim. Using modern cloth requirements for people, a frock coat takes 3 1/2 yards of cloth, sack coats 2 3/4 to 3, the shell jacket takes only 2 yards. Back then with how much smaller folks were, a shell used only around 1 1/4. More yards=more money. Plus they were quicker to make with less labor.

As far as costs to the taxpayer, unadorned shell jackets were a Godsend during the war. Plus, back then they were very fashionable. Also, Cadet coats are tailcoats. They just look like shell jackets from the front and have long tails in the back.

I take it that your information applies more to the rebs than the yanks.

 

[Salterr]

Im familiar with acw union shell jackets, and the different colored piping that each different discipline used, but were shell jackets worn in battle? Were soldiers issued sack coats, frock coats, shell jackets and great coats? And lastly,, are there any photos of artillery crews wearing shell jackets? I know "action shots" weren't a thing, but it seems like all the gun crew photos I see, they are either wearing sack or frock coats, but I haven't seen a gun crew wearing shell jackets. Photos must exist, and I'd to see them

There's a bunch in a quick google search that show them being worn in the field and union drummer boy has an identified shell jacket however it's modified, the collar was lowered.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I take it that your information applies more to the rebs than the yanks.

When taken both sides overall, yes.

But the shell jacket was well represented in Federal ranks, as mentioned the Vicksburg Campaign it was the more common. A good example being this photo of the 17th Illinois Infantry in Vicksburg:

Besides place like the Schuylkill Arsenal producing thousands if not tens of thousands of untrimmed ones, you also have Union States like New York, Illinois, Ohio, a couple others I can't remember producing and issuing them to their solders. While probably not quite as common sack coat, they were way more common than many folks would admit.

 

[drezac]

With artillery, the jacket issued would typically depend on what type of artillery the unit was. As a general rule, mounted artillery ( where the artillerymen were on foot), would be issued sack coats. For horse artillery, they would have been issued shell jackets as they were designed for riding.

 

[Jack7171]

With artillery, the jacket issued would typically depend on what type of artillery the unit was. As a general rule, mounted artillery ( where the artillerymen were on foot), would be issued sack coats. For horse artillery, they would have been issued shell jackets as they were designed for riding.

That certainly makes sense,, thank you!

 

[Dan Kohli]

Just as a disclaimer the there are several different jackets that the term "shell jacket" apples to. The original question was about a specific type of "shell jacket" known as the Mounted Service Jacket (MSJ) as used by the cavalry and field artillery of the Union Army. While it was used a part of the campaign uniform by many servicemen as it was intended. Of the two jackets/coats that the Federal Government wished to issue too tall enlisted men of the army. The MSJ was unarguably the jacket used for the fancy dress uniform.

 

[PrivateBrooke]

Had no idea they were so prolific, especially in battle! They certainly don't look comfortable, they look rather tight and stuffy

They actually are quite comfortable, especially if you go up a size(issue jackets were almost always either too big or too small, so it's accurate). Especially in hot weather, a shorter jacket is more forgiving.

 

[Salterr]

They actually are quite comfortable, especially if you go up a size(issue jackets were almost always either too big or too small, so it's accurate). Especially in hot weather, a shorter jacket is more forgiving.

I've always wanted a real one and I've come close so many times to getting one but there's always been something off about either the jacket missing a button or two or the seller giving me an attitude hahah. Maybe one day.

 

[Jack7171]

What would have been the headgear worn with an artillery shell jacket? Kepi?