Artillery Forges

[Molchman]

Hi All,

I was wondering if artillery Batteries brought their forges right up with them to the line. I was trying to understand if the Union had their forges brought up to the peach orchard. If there were 8 Union Batteries in the Peach orchard on Day 2 attack (Thompson, Bucklyn, Watson, Knox, Hart, Clark, Phillips, Bigelow) That would be 8 forges on the field requiring a possible 48 horses that could be hit. I understand the need for forges but do you think they brought them all up? If not where would they go. It seems to be a lot massed in a field that would potentially get hit, and the loss of horses, creation of dead horses on the field causing navigation problems, I was wondering how that may take in consideration. Any thoughts?

 

[Rhea Cole]

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/stereo/1s00000/1s02000/1s02700/1s02740r.jpg

The mobile forge was an integral element of an artillery battery. After a march from Nashville to Murfreesboro TN on the MacAdamized Pike, (+/-) 1/2 of the (+/-) 125 horses would require new shoes.

When they dropped trails in battery, the support elements were held in a reserve position. The battery wagon, reserve ammunition, supply wagon, spare horses, personal baggage & the forge were ideally in defilade.

 

[BrianB]

In theory, each battery had a "battery wagon" that was a mobile repair shop, able to fix just about anything that broke in the battery's gear. it included a complete mobile blacksmith shop, with all the tools and gear a blacksmith would need, plus carpentry tools and a harness/bridle repair kit

 

[Rhea Cole]

In theory, each battery had a "battery wagon" that was a mobile repair shop, able to fix just about anything that broke in the battery's gear. it included a complete mobile blacksmith shop, with all the tools and gear a blacksmith would need, plus carpentry tools and a harness/bridle repair kit

The battery wagon did not carry the horse shoes, coal, etc that the artificer farrier needed. Those items were carried in the forge & limber box.

 

[Belfoured]

Hi All,

I was wondering if artillery Batteries brought their forges right up with them to the line. I was trying to understand if the Union had their forges brought up to the peach orchard. If there were 8 Union Batteries in the Peach orchard on Day 2 attack (Thompson, Bucklyn, Watson, Knox, Hart, Clark, Phillips, Bigelow) That would be 8 forges on the field requiring a possible 48 horses that could be hit. I understand the need for forges but do you think they brought them all up? If not where would they go. It seems to be a lot massed in a field that would potentially get hit, and the loss of horses, creation of dead horses on the field causing navigation problems, I was wondering how that may take in consideration. Any thoughts?

If you look at the space occupied by limber and horses (and possibly caisson/horses, as well) to the rear of the gun, that's very unlikely. See for example illustrations in the Instructions manual. Not to mention what function they'd be performing under fire. Like the battery wagon, etc they should be in park at the rear.

 

[Belfoured]

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/stereo/1s00000/1s02000/1s02700/1s02740r.jpg

The mobile forge was an integral element of an artillery battery. After a march from Nashville to Murfreesboro TN on the MacAdamized Pike, (+/-) 1/2 of the (+/-) 125 horses would require new shoes.

When they dropped trails in battery, the support elements were held in a reserve position. The battery wagon, reserve ammunition, supply wagon, spare horses, personal baggage & the forge were ideally in defilade.

I should have read yours before posting mine.

 

[Belfoured]

View attachment 523124
The battery wagon did not carry the horse shoes, coal, etc that the artificer farrier needed. Those items were carried in the forge & limber box.

As we know - soldiers being soldiers - batteries were supposed to be assigned 1 or 2 wagons for baggage, tents, etc but there are accounts of "extras" being stuffed in the battery wagon in addition to the items that regulations allotted.

 

[Rhea Cole]

As we know - soldiers being soldiers - batteries were supposed to be assigned 1 or 2 wagons for baggage, tents, etc but there are accounts of "extras" being stuffed in the battery wagon in addition to the items that regulations allotted.

Oh yes. In June 1863 Rosecrans had issued strict orders minimizing the personal equipment that could be carried on the advance. He delighted soldiers by personally supervising the bonfire of officer's personal property that violated his stringent orders.

Movement was arduous at the best of times. The bottomless mud of the Tullahoma Campaign brought men, horses & equipment to the last once of endurance. Even the allowed minimum camp equipment went to the roadside.

 

[Belfoured]

Oh yes. In June 1863 Rosecrans had issued strict orders minimizing the personal equipment that could be carried on the advance. He delighted soldiers by personally supervising the bonfire of officer's personal property that violated his stringent orders.

View attachment 523129
Movement was arduous at the best of times. The bottomless mud of the Tullahoma Campaign brought men, horses & equipment to the last once of endurance. Even the allowed minimum camp equipment went to the roadside.

Somewhere I have an account by a battery clerk recording what appears to have been a battery CO personally tossing stuff out of the battery wagon. One can only imagine an inspection by Hunt uncovering that use of the wagon.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Somewhere I have an account by a battery clerk recording what appears to have been a battery CO personally tossing stuff out of the battery wagon. One can only imagine an inspection by Hunt uncovering that use of the wagon.

Somewhere in my voluminous file of images there is an illustration of a limber & gun all but buried in bags, furniture & traps.

 

[Tom Elmore]

I am unaware of any mention of forges being brought to the front line by artillery batteries, and cannot imagine why they would be exposed in that way to unnecessary damage or destruction. Here's one reference addressing the subject:

"On the second day, the battery wagon, driven by John R. Brayton; the traveling forge drawn by six mules under the charge of Elias H. Mathewson; and the spare horses were left in the rear, as usual during an engagement." (George Lewis, History of Battery E, 1st Rhode Island Artillery, p. 216)

 

[Rhea Cole]

I am unaware of any mention of forges being brought to the front line by artillery batteries, and cannot imagine why they would be exposed in that way to unnecessary damage or destruction. Here's one reference addressing the subject:

"On the second day, the battery wagon, driven by John R. Brayton; the traveling forge drawn by six mules under the charge of Elias H. Mathewson; and the spare horses were left in the rear, as usual during an engagement." (George Lewis, History of Battery E, 1st Rhode Island Artillery, p. 216)

At Stones River the Chicago Board of Trade Battery dropped trails west of the present day visitor center on Dec 13, 1862. Seeing a broken down & abandoned artillery piece in their front.

The Chicagoans retrieved the piece. During the night the artificers of the battery repaired it.

From that point on the CBT Battery dropped trails with an additional cannon on their gun line.

This is an example of what the highly skilled artificers organic to a battery could do.

 

[Belfoured]

I am unaware of any mention of forges being brought to the front line by artillery batteries, and cannot imagine why they would be exposed in that way to unnecessary damage or destruction. Here's one reference addressing the subject:

"On the second day, the battery wagon, driven by John R. Brayton; the traveling forge drawn by six mules under the charge of Elias H. Mathewson; and the spare horses were left in the rear, as usual during an engagement." (George Lewis, History of Battery E, 1st Rhode Island Artillery, p. 216)

That's the core issue - what on earth would they have been doing when the battery was in action front? If I'm a guy working the forge and I'm being positioned with the limbers/caissons, I'm suddenly needing a restroom break.

 

[Gettysburg Greg]

Hi All,

I was wondering if artillery Batteries brought their forges right up with them to the line. I was trying to understand if the Union had their forges brought up to the peach orchard. If there were 8 Union Batteries in the Peach orchard on Day 2 attack (Thompson, Bucklyn, Watson, Knox, Hart, Clark, Phillips, Bigelow) That would be 8 forges on the field requiring a possible 48 horses that could be hit. I understand the need for forges but do you think they brought them all up? If not where would they go. It seems to be a lot massed in a field that would potentially get hit, and the loss of horses, creation of dead horses on the field causing navigation problems, I was wondering how that may take in consideration. Any thoughts?

In Gardner's photo called "Unfit for Service", a dead mule is seen lying next to a damaged caisson. When enhanced, a number of horse-drawn wagons are seen in the background. Among the wagons is what appears to be a mobile forge shown in the photo from Gettysburg Daily below. Extensive research has determined that the line of wagons is probably from an artillery unit that is in line on the Emmitsburg Road.

 

[Rhea Cole]

In Gardner's photo called "Unfit for Service", a dead mule is seen lying next to a damaged caisson. When enhanced, a number of horse-drawn wagons are seen in the background. Among the wagons is what appears to be a mobile forge shown in the photo from Gettysburg Daily below. Extensive research has determined that the line of wagons is probably from an artillery unit that is in line on the Emmitsburg Road.
View attachment 523831

Link to postcard image traveling forge:

Pardon Our Interruption...

The Chicago Board of trade Battery traveling forge survived the Great Chicago Fire. The forge has a very distinctive profile.

No question, that is a limber & hitched traveling forge. The drivers have dismounted. The saddle horses camera left would be the farriers'. The HQ (?) wagon & typical supply wagon fill out the picture of a battery support element.

Thanks for this post. Not an ordinary image.

 

[Gettysburg Greg]

No question, that is a limber & hitched mobile forge. The drivers have dismounted. The saddle horses camera left would be the farriers'. The HQ (?) wagon & typical supply wagon fill out the picture of a battery support element.

Thanks for this post. Not an ordinary image.

No question, that is a limber & hitched mobile forge. The drivers have dismounted. The saddle horses camera left would be the farriers'. The HQ (?) wagon & typical supply wagon fill out the picture of a battery support element.

Thanks for this post. Not an ordinary image.

In the unedited original image, the background, including the wagons are completely washed out.

 

[Gettysburg Greg]

In the unedited original image, the background, including the wagons are completely washed out.

Here is the entire image unedited.