Lee An Antislavery R. E. Lee?

[cash]

Look no offense to you and wausabob (which I disagree with him on another threads) but while most white Northerners certainly had no love for the peculiar institution they did not think blacks should ever have equal rights (see Complicity: How the North Profited, Promoted, and Prolonged Slavery) and most supported the idea of colonization as in sending blacks back to Africa because they thought they would be better off there.

Again, this thread is about Lee and slavery, not equal rights.

 

[BlueandGrayl]

Again, this thread is about Lee and slavery, not equal rights.

I understand though I am simply looking at the realities of the 19th century.

 

[cash]

I understand though I am simply looking at the realities of the 19th century.

Views on equal rights would go somewhere else. Being against slavery does not equate to being in favor of equal rights. This is about Lee's views on slavery.

 

[wausaubob]

Lee's view was that slavery was the only way to control the African/American population. However, within the United States Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey and New York had all demonstrated that it was not necessary to control the African/American population. In most of Latin America there had always been a course towards manumission. Even in Virginia there were counties that had very few coerced workers.
In most of the United States, by 1860, slavery was something that was tolerated as long as it stayed in the south, and was used in growing and ginning cotton, and kept the peace.
Slavery without peace rapidly died out because external tolerance was removed.

 

[Canadian]

It's not surprising that Lee took slavery for granted, given his upbringing and the typical views of Southerners at the time. It's disturbing that many people believe that he was anti-slavery due to a few sentences in one of his letters.

 

[Waterloo50]

Again, this thread is about Lee and slavery, not equal rights.

Confused here, you can't have slavery if you have equal rights, the two go hand in hand.

 

[cash]

Confused here, you can't have slavery if you have equal rights, the two go hand in hand.

You can have no slavery with no equal rights. The two do not go hand-in-hand.

 

[Waterloo50]

You can have no slavery with no equal rights. The two do not go hand-in-hand.

You didn't think that one through did you! No slavery means that there must be equal rights.

 

[wausaubob]

You didn't think that one through did you! No slavery means that there must be equal rights.

No one in the United States would equate the absence of slavery with equal rights. In the US, we are still some distance from equal rights.

 

[Waterloo50]

No one in the United States would equate the absence of slavery with equal rights. In the US, we are still some distance from equal rights.

You no longer have slavery because of equal rights and anti discriminatory/racist practice and of course morals.

 

[cash]

You didn't think that one through did you! No slavery means that there must be equal rights.

Read about United States history from 1865 to the 1980s.

 

[cash]

You no longer have slavery because of equal rights and anti discriminatory/racist practice and of course morals.

It's cute someone actually believes that fantasy.

 

[Waterloo50]

Read about United States history from 1865 to the 1980s.

Okay I'll concede, I honestly thought that the abolishment of slavery was because the vast majority of Americans believed that all men should be treated equal, could have sworn that was in the Declaration of Independence, don't you have a mention of equality (all beit in a roundabout kind of way) within your constitution 14 amendment.

 

[Waterloo50]

It's cute someone actually believes that fantasy.

Could you explain in a non cute way, why you no longer have slavery, I'm guessing that you agree that the civil war was fought primarily because of slavery or are you telling me that equal rights had no part in that.

 

[John Hartwell]

Look no offense to you and wausabob (which I disagree with him on another threads) but while most white Northerners certainly had no love for the peculiar institution they did not think blacks should ever have equal rights (see Complicity: How the North Profited, Promoted, and Prolonged Slavery) and most supported the idea of colonization as in sending blacks back to Africa because they thought they would be better off there.

Equal rights and slavery are two different issues. There is no contradiction in believing blacks are not equal to whites, but they still should not be enslaved. In the 1860s, those who truly believed in racial equality were an extremely small number (maybe Thad Stephens and a half dozen other guys - slight exaggeration there). That doesn't mean they didn't believe blacks should be fairly, justly and humanely treated -- and not enslaved. They were, after, almost, if not entirely equal.

 

[cash]

Could you explain in a non cute way, why you no longer have slavery, I'm guessing that you agree that the civil war was fought primarily because of slavery or are you telling me that equal rights had no part in that.

One can believe slavery is wrong and still believe there should be no equal rights. Equal rights had very little to do with the Civil War for the white Union soldiers. It had a lot to do with the war for the black soldiers.

 

[John Hartwell]

Okay I'll concede, I honestly thought that the abolishment of slavery was because the vast majority of Americans believed that all men should be treated equal, could have sworn that was in the Declaration of Independence, don't you have a mention of equality (all beit in a roundabout kind of way) within your constitution 14 amendment.

"All men should be treated equal" before the law. The law and its protections should be applied equally to all men (even to those races not quite as smart, diligent, and virtuous as 'us.')

 

[Drew]

Lee wrote this letter to his son, W. H. F. "Rooney" Lee, on July 9, 1860:

San Antonio, Texas

9 July 1860

My precious Son

I have recd your long satisfactory letter of the 24th ulto, which has given me pleasure in every way but one, viz: your account of the sickness of Chass & my grd son: I am very glad to hear that they are well over it, & hope they may meet with no drawbacks or return. Where does the sweet child think of going this Summer? Your mother wrote she talked of old Point, which will be very Convenient, if it will suit her in other respects. As she cannot come out to her Pa'a, I want her to go where she prefers, believing she will decide upon the best place under all the circumstances. The sea breeze & salt bathing of the Point, were considered in my day fine for the babies, & the oysters & hog fish in addition, equally good for their mamas. I do not know how it is now. When you decide you must let me know. I hope Chass has recd my letters, one from the Rio Grande & one from this place, for I would not like her to think I had neglected her So long. I am glad to hear that you like the improvements to your house & hope you will have much enjoyment in all you have done. Have the mechanics completed entirely & have the accounts all been paid? I ask that I may know if you want any assistance. On hearing that you had not sold the corn & could not do so at once, I sent Custis all the funds I had, & orders for my July dividends, that he might pay Mr Winston's asst the repairs of the Arlington Mill & supply your mother with funds for her summer expedition. I can therefore pay myself out of the Sales of the Corn, & spare you some if you want it. I hope therefore you will let me know, I am very sorry for the death of your horse. The breaking of the pair, is a serious loss, independent of the horse himself. Can you replace him? I hope in time you will be able to raise your own horses. That wretched bull. He must be a very fine one to indemnify you for your loss. I am very glad to hear such good accounts of the wheat crop. I have been fearing that the various injuries to the crops in other sections of the state had extended to yours, though I had seen none reported in the papers. I hope now you will make a fair one get a remunerative price. The plan you propose for selling it is very judicious. I am an advocate for early Sales of every crop. The reasons you give for the sale of the wheat, hold good for the sale of the Corn, which I have always desired to be sold as early in the spring as possible. Except in the event of a calamity, the prices do not vary much, & the wastage is certain. When the Cornhouses are full of corn it is seen to be used more profusely than when you have only a sufficiency. That may be one cause why the crop of Romankoke falls short of the estimate. As regards what I believe the quicker you can get it to market, the better the price. By selling it in the way you propose it will save the construction of additional barns which is a consideration, at this time. I am sorry to hear of the death of Mildred. You know you must make particular records of all the deaths & births. I shall have to account for everything on the inventories at both places, taken Jany 1858. On the inventories you take at the end of the year, enumerate the deaths &c. I am glad to hear of the successful fishing & the good conduct of the people.1 I hope they will continue in good health & that every thing will prosper under your management. It will require enumerating attention on your part. As regards the use of the reapers, Mr Nelson made large expenditures in their purchase, with my approbation, but always had to abandon them before the end of harvest & take to the scythes. Whether it was bad management or bad machinery I do not know. I should think they would be a great relief in those large fields, that were free of stumps, but Mr N said the soil was unfavourable for driving the grains. As I never was there during harvest I was obliged to take his word for it. I think some of the reapers are there now. I am very glad to hear that the Corn is looking so well. I hope it may turn out So. Deep plowing with lime is the basis of the improvement of the Soil. If you can keep that up, the land must improve & crops increase. By attention & Comparison you will soon satisfy yourself the best system to pursue. You will learn a great deal from the management & progress of your neighbors. I hope this year something will be done to the payment of the legacies. After Mr Winston is paid, I believe I will be the only creditor to the Estate. I have written to Custis to send me the amt: after the Commissioner shall have settled the accounts, after paying which, the balance of the crops will go to the legacies.

There is another thing I wish to speak to you of. I fear I shall have to purchase a servant. I find it almost impossible to hire one, & nearly all the officers in the Dept have been obliged to resort to purchase. Sometimes you can get a discharged soldier, that will answer on a campaighn [sic], but that is uncertain, & not to be relied on. At present I have a boy belonging to Major Martin for whom I pay $20 per month. I have thought some one about Richmond might have a good family servant from whom they are obliged to part, & for whom they would like to procure a master. Do you know of any? Do you think Anthony has any ideas about Hog driving, or could he be made any thing of? I would rather hire a white man than purchase if I Could. I have no news. The indians are quiet at this time, & we have no trouble from Cortemas. The troops are out, as hot as it is, but I suppose in the Fall we shall have more work. I am expecting the 3rd Infy from new mexico, & many of the officers of the Regt, who have been in the States, have arrived here to join it. Col Backus, Capts, Gordon, Bowman Trevitt, & Lt Holt, Col Chandler & Captain ****z are on the way. The officers here are all well & frequently ask after you. I wish I could get you a horse I have. He is a bay & strong & muscular 7 years old. I think he is larger than yours. I know much broader & heavier. He is a fine trotter. I bought him before I went to the Rio Grande, & while there I purchased a Zacatecas mare. Since my return I have purchased from Chudie2 a mare that was originally offered me, but which I let Mr Radjiminski3 have. She was brought from Kentucky with the horses of the Regt: & they kept here for me. She is a fine animal & well broken though is 9 or 10 years old. The horse I speak of is broke to Harness though I have never driven her. I have been trying to match him for my wagon, but cannot. Major C. says I will not find a match in the Dept. He was poor & reduced when I bought him in this place. Every one is asking me where I procured him now.

Kiss my sweet Chass for me. Tell her I am wishing to see her all the time & hope to do so some of these days. You must also kiss my grd son for me & take care of him at nights. Good bye my dear son. your affn father R E Lee

Robert Lee was a fairly well educated man. If he never understood the use of paragraphs, that would explain why his orders were misunderstood during the War.

 

[cash]

Robert Lee was a fairly well educated man. If he never understood the use of paragraphs, that would explain why his orders were misunderstood during the War.

Perhaps Lee's writing ability can be discussed in a separate thread. This particular thread is about his views on slavery.

 

[Drew]

Perhaps Lee's writing ability can be discussed in a separate thread. This particular thread is about his views on slavery.

Your original post shows he said he'd rather hire a white man than buy a black one.

That says a lot about his views.