Ames M1860 Cavalry Sword Dated 1858

[Larryh86GT]

Does anyone know how many of the Ames M1860 cavalry swords dated 1858 were made?

 

[JOHN42768]

Don't know if this helps, but : U.S. Model 1860 Cav. Saber by Ames dated 1858 and the ricasso shows a three line block letter stamped marking for Ames manufacture and the blade shows U.S. and inspections by J.H. over the date of 1858. This 1st order of the light cavalry saber was for only approximately 800 and they were inspected by J.H. Hannah who was an ordnance inspector only until 1859. The blade is slightly cleaned and is good with good markings andscabbard also has been cleaned. There is some minor pitting and erosion and the grip is good with all its wire wrap. The hilt shows a slightly polished and lacquered coating and there is a LRB stamped on the right side ofthe hilt. A scarce and desirable early light cavalry sword that pre-dates the Civil War. Est.: $1,000-$2,000.
this info is posted in ad http://www.icollector.com/U-S-Model...hows-a-three-line-block-letter-stam_i15999189

 

[UCVRelics]

The answer is 1800. Below is an 1858 dated sword inspected by JT. In 1857 the Ames Sword Company received a request from the US Government to provide sample patterns of a new light Cavalry Saber made after the French model of 1822 and referred to in the Ordnance Department records as the "new pattern".

Pre War US Government procurements were as follows.

Prewar 1859-1860
Made by Ames
1856-57 – 1000
1858 – 1800
1859 – 5000
Total. 7800

 

[Jobe Holiday]

To carry this one year farther, am I correct in believing that Ames delivered 1,200 of the 1860 Model Cavalry Sabers that were actually dated 1860?
J.

 

[UCVRelics]

To carry this one year farther, am I correct in believing that Ames delivered 1,200 of them?
J.

Would that be 1859? it was 5000

 

[Steveostar37]

Don't know if this helps, but : U.S. Model 1860 Cav. Saber by Ames dated 1858 and the ricasso shows a three line block letter stamped marking for Ames manufacture and the blade shows U.S. and inspections by J.H. over the date of 1858. This 1st order of the light cavalry saber was for only approximately 800 and they were inspected by J.H. Hannah who was an ordnance inspector only until 1859. The blade is slightly cleaned and is good with good markings andscabbard also has been cleaned. There is some minor pitting and erosion and the grip is good with all its wire wrap. The hilt shows a slightly polished and lacquered coating and there is a LRB stamped on the right side ofthe hilt. A scarce and desirable early light cavalry sword that pre-dates the Civil War. Est.: $1,000-$2,000.
this info is posted in ad http://www.icollector.com/U-S-Model...hows-a-three-line-block-letter-stam_i15999189

Good morning everyone i have a M1860 Wrist breaker Saber but it's in rough shape and I can't make out marking distinguishing if it's ether American or European yikes !!! please if anyone can help I'd greatly appreciate it. Here's some pictures.

 

[Steveostar37]

It's been put theu the ringer and the person that had it before me must have sand blasted it or used Navy gel to clean it damaging the original fatina and more. Unfortunately as well no Scabbard was found with it in the storage unit i purchased. So if anyone can help with maybe American or European and an Estimated value in current condition it would be Appreciated Thank You Very Much.

 

[FiremarshalBill]

Just curious, but how could a Model 1860 anything be produced two years before it's own model designation? Is this possibly a Model 1840 (old wrist breaker)?

 

[James N.]

Just curious, but how could a Model 1860 anything be produced two years before it's own model designation? Is this possibly a Model 1840 (old wrist breaker)?

Easily explained, and a question I wondered about myself before somewhere reading the answer: Often before the "official" adoption of any particular model of ANYTHING, examples were produced for trial and field testing. Usually there were a few hundred up to a thousand or so of whatever it was and they were issued to select companies or maybe even a regiment if there were enough the items under consideration. Only after they were tried and approved were they officially adopted as that of the date of their acceptance rather than that of their inception.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

Just curious, but how could a Model 1860 anything be produced two years before it's own model designation? Is this possibly a Model 1840 (old wrist breaker)?

Often a model name will be attached to a particular item by the collector community which will, although having no official basis, through common usage become the conventional designation. The "M1860 Cavalry Saber" is probably the most commonly known example, but the same applies to a number of other contemporary examples, e.g. the "M1860 Navy Cutlass" which was actually adopted in 1861 and the "M1872 Artillery Officer Saber" which was actually adopted in 1882. I have never seen an official document which referred to the so-called M1860 cavalry saber as the "M1860".

 

[Glen_C]

I believe/suspect the rusty sword is might be a Bleckman or Roby but the blade puzzles me a bit. In my observations, the extra number of grip wire grooves eliminate all but those two US ACW examples. However, the blade seems to have a flat spine while skinnier than an m1840. Strange.

It might possibly be a French made 1822 type cavalry officer's sword because of the grip contour and blade.

The addicted spathologists often just say heavy and light when discussing not just the US swords but that there were heavy and light French mle1822 swords. The heavy with more blade and more hilt branches.

Cheers
GC

 

[James N.]

I believe/suspect the rusty sword is might be a Bleckman or Roby but the blade puzzles me a bit. In my observations, the extra number of grip wire grooves eliminate all but those two US ACW examples. However, the blade seems to have a flat spine while skinnier than an m1840. Strange.

It might possibly be a French made 1822 type cavalry officer's sword because of the grip contour and blade.

The addicted spathologists often just say heavy and light when discussing not just the US swords but that there were heavy and light French mle1822 swords. The heavy with more blade and more hilt branches.

Cheers
GC

I had observed the flat back on the blade too, but in its rusted and pitted condition wasn't certain I was seeing it right.

 

[Spathologist]

Does anyone know how many of the Ames M1860 cavalry swords dated 1858 were made?

John Hamilton, in his The Ames Sword Company, 1829-1935, lists only 800 sabers delivered in 1858, on October 18 of that year. Thillmann provides the same information on page 79 of the blue book.