Davis Alexander Stephens Great Union Speech

[JerryD]

Most have heard of Stephen's Cornerstone Speech, but another one worth reading is this one. Currently reading about the secession debates in Georgia and ran across Alexander Stephen's Great Union Speech. Stephen's foresight is absolutely remarkable, and his argument is spot on. Its a pity that more reasonable, even headed people didn't listen to him. Its also worth noting that he puts the lie to the argument that the North was looting the South to operate the federal government. But I suspect the hot headed secessionists were not ready to be confused by facts and reality.

The great union speech of Hon. Alexander H. Stephens, Vice-president of the Southern Confederacy ... [n. p. n. d.].

Available also through the Library of Congress web site in two forms: as facsimile page images and as full text in SGML. Printed Ephemera Collection; Portfolio 244, Folder 20.

www.loc.gov

 

[Elliot Crumblemuffin]

Thank you for sharing this with us, JerryD!

 

[unionblue]

@JerryD ,

Always nice to hear "the rest of the story."

Thanks for taking the time to post this speech.

Maybe you should repost it at that "looting the South" thread too.

Unionblue

 

[JerryD]

@JerryD ,

Always nice to hear "the rest of the story."

Thanks for taking the time to post this speech.

Maybe you should repost it at that "looting the South" thread too.

Unionblue

I was tempted....but ended up wanting that thing to die. Some people are just beyond reason.

 

[Greywolf]

Seems to be some controversy over this speech. Stephen's denied it and it does sound out of place for the man who made the cornerstone speech.

https://catalogue.swanngalleries.co...er-H-Stephe?saleno=2517&lotNo=37&refNo=759977

 

[unionblue]

I was tempted....but ended up wanting that thing to die. Some people are just beyond reason.

A shame.

Some people may be beyond reason but facts, historical facts, should never be out of reach for the rest of the people.

 

[JerryD]

Seems to be some controversy over this speech. Stephen's denied it and it does sound out of place for the man who made the cornerstone speech.

https://catalogue.swanngalleries.co...er-H-Stephe?saleno=2517&lotNo=37&refNo=759977

Thanks for pointing this out! I will have to look into. I have read another speech that Stevens gave in opposition to secession in Milledgeville in November 1860 which mirrors many of the points here, but goes into a lot more detail and does make some different arguments.

I dont see any conflict with the Cornerstone Speech (which I think Stephens also denied making). I think he makes clear he is looking after Georgia's best interests, including the protection of slavery, and sees that as not running wildly into secession. He made the same points in the Milledgeville Speech.

 

[JerryD]

Seems to be some controversy over this speech. Stephen's denied it and it does sound out of place for the man who made the cornerstone speech.

https://catalogue.swanngalleries.co...er-H-Stephe?saleno=2517&lotNo=37&refNo=759977

Here is a link to the Milledgeville Speech I referred to above.

Alec Stephen's Speech to the Georgia Legislature

 

[JerryD]

Seems to be some controversy over this speech. Stephen's denied it and it does sound out of place for the man who made the cornerstone speech.

https://catalogue.swanngalleries.co...er-H-Stephe?saleno=2517&lotNo=37&refNo=759977

Here is page 215 of Stephen's Recollections, where your link claims Stephens denied he made this speech. In comparing his comments on page 215, I strongly suspect he is not talking about this speech. He calls it a letter in the N.Y Times from a J. Minor Botts, while the speech looks to be printed on a broadside (and is in both the US Library of Congress and the Duke University Library). Granted, the broadside may have been a reprint of the letter, but Stephens also disclaims the letter by saying he would never say secession was illegal. Well, in the Great Union Speech he never makes that statement, so if it was the same document then he would be denying he ever said something that was never said. That just makes no sense.

Image 239 of Recollections of Alexander H. Stephens : his diary kept when a prisoner at Fort Warren, Boston harbour, 1865, giving incidents and reflections of his prison life and some letters and reminiscences

Includes index. Also available in digital form.

www.loc.gov

 

[Greywolf]

Here is page 215 of Stephen's Recollections, where your link claims Stephens denied he made this speech. In comparing his comments on page 215, I strongly suspect he is not talking about this speech. He calls it a letter in the N.Y Times from a J. Minor Botts, while the speech looks to be printed on a broadside (and is in both the US Library of Congress and the Duke University Library). Granted, the broadside may have been a reprint of the letter, but Stephens also disclaims the letter by saying he would never say secession was illegal. Well, in the Great Union Speech he never makes that statement, so if it was the same document then he would be denying he ever said something that was never said. That just makes no sense.

Image 239 of Recollections of Alexander H. Stephens : his diary kept when a prisoner at Fort Warren, Boston harbour, 1865, giving incidents and reflections of his prison life and some letters and reminiscences

Includes index. Also available in digital form.

www.loc.gov

I looked around a bit and it's hard,in my limited time looking, to find anything concrete. My personal opinion at this point is he did give that speech, after all he had Unionist leanings pre war. So unless someone finds more compelling evidence that will be my stand.

 

[JerryD]

Yeah, I am trying to have an open mind. The one thing that concerns me is that I cant find out where or when he purportedly gave it. I tend to think he did, but would like to more about the details. But thanks again for pointing out there is at least some dispute.

 

[JerryD]

Anyone have a subscription to the N.Y. Times? Here is a link to the letter from Botts that Stephens referred to. But I can't open since i dont have a subscription. Would love to know if its the same speech or not.

THE SOUTH.; Important Letter from Hon. J. Minor Botts to Hon. J.A. Gilmer. His Views on the Condition of the South Last February. He Advised the Rebels to Submit Without Further Delay. (Published 1865)

Warning to Georgia Convention of 1861; Letter to Hon. J. A. Gilmer

www.nytimes.com

 

[huskerblitz]

Anyone have a subscription to the N.Y. Times? Here is a link to the letter from Botts that Stephens referred to. But I can't open since i dont have a subscription. Would love to know if its the same speech or not.

THE SOUTH.; Important Letter from Hon. J. Minor Botts to Hon. J.A. Gilmer. His Views on the Condition of the South Last February. He Advised the Rebels to Submit Without Further Delay. (Published 1865)

Warning to Georgia Convention of 1861; Letter to Hon. J. A. Gilmer

www.nytimes.com

You can pull up the text without subscribing. Just search "New York Times June 12, 1865 "minor botts"

But you won't be able to copy/paste the entire thing here.

 

[JerryD]

You can pull up the text without subscribing. Just search "New York Times June 12, 1865 "minor botts"

But you won't be able to copy/paste the entire thing here.

Ok, I was able to find it, and yes, he does quote a part of the Great Union Speech, so Stephens did deny making this speech.

 

[huskerblitz]

I get the same message when I click your link. But if I open another tab, it asks me to sign in with the Times or with Google. I just ignore it and scroll down to the article.

What exactly are you wanting to verify in the article?

 

[JerryD]

I get the same message when I click your link. But if I open another tab, it asks me to sign in with the Times or with Google. I just ignore it and scroll down to the article.

What exactly are you wanting to verify in the article?

Thanks. See above. I was trying to verify if the letter was quoting the Great Union Speech I linked to above. It does.

 

[robertmcm]

Most have heard of Stephen's Cornerstone Speech, but another one worth reading is this one. Currently reading about the secession debates in Georgia and ran across Alexander Stephen's Great Union Speech. Stephen's foresight is absolutely remarkable, and his argument is spot on. Its a pity that more reasonable, even headed people didn't listen to him. Its also worth noting that he puts the lie to the argument that the North was looting the South to operate the federal government. But I suspect the hot headed secessionists were not ready to be confused by facts and reality.

The great union speech of Hon. Alexander H. Stephens, Vice-president of the Southern Confederacy ... [n. p. n. d.].

Available also through the Library of Congress web site in two forms: as facsimile page images and as full text in SGML. Printed Ephemera Collection; Portfolio 244, Folder 20.

www.loc.gov

"Its also worth noting that he puts the lie to the argument that the North was looting the South to operate the federal government."

Looking forward to any material you can provide that proves this is a lie. Thanks in advance

 

[JerryD]

"Its also worth noting that he puts the lie to the argument that the North was looting the South to operate the federal government."

Looking forward to any material you can provide that proves this is a lie. Thanks in advance

In other threads I have posted about how over two thirds of all tariffs were collected in New York harbor alone. If you read the speech you will see Stephens acknowledge that fact. Clearly the demagogues who were pushing secession were not too concerned about actual facts, like the fact that Lincoln could not touch the institution of slavery, since the Supreme Court and Congress was stiill dominated by Democrats and doughfaces. They were being spooked by goblins under their beds.

 

[CowCavalry]

In other threads I have posted about how over two thirds of all tariffs were collected in New York harbor alone. If you read the speech you will see Stephens acknowledge that fact. Clearly the demagogues who were pushing secession were not too concerned about actual facts, like the fact that Lincoln could not touch the institution of slavery, since the Supreme Court and Congress was stiill dominated by Democrats and doughfaces. They were being spooked by goblins under their beds.

I would comment but this has all been recently beaten to death. I suppose it will continue to be as long as the USA exists.

 

[roberts]

The broadside that you found was by The Loyal Publication Society which created Unionist propaganda during this time period. Some of their work was factual but they were not above fraudulent efforts like this which touted the union ideal while making the CSA veep look like an extreme hypocrite. In any case it first appeared in The Liberator on Mar 27, 1863. It was claimed that the speech was made at the Georgia secession convention. While Stephens was against secession at the convention, he played second string to Herschel V Johnson in pro union speech making at that time. His big union speech was to the Georgia legislature in November 1860. It was different than this... Stephens did call the broadside a forgery.