Advice about this sword

[dkl14b]

Hi everyone,

Attached to this thread are images of a sword from an ebay seller that I want to buy. It is a presentation sword and scabbard made by James Fitch NY. As stated by the seller, the inscription on the brass throat of the scabbard reads: Isaac Hallock From MJ English, Albion September 9th 1862. I believe the scabbard is from the Civil War. I was able to track down Isaac Hallock, he was a Lieutenant in Company D of the 151st infantry regiment of New York. His documents also stated that he joined on September 9th 1862 in Albion. The MJ English in the inscription I have narrowed down to two possible candidates, either Mary Jane Hobbs English or Myron J. English, both lived close to Albion. Though I believe the scabbard is from the period, I am a bit suspicious that the sword was not original to the scabbard, and the two were married together later on. From the pictures I sent, I was wondering if you can tell me if the sword looks period appropriate or is a fake? Furthermore, I was wondering if you can give me advise on what other information I should ask the seller to give me before I consider buying this sword?

I just got started into collecting and am trying to learn as much as I can so as not to get scammed

Thank you

 

[scooter748driver]

Hard to tell much from those pictures as they aren't very clear. While I'm not saying this is a fake, eBay is rife with fakes & frauds. Being new to collection I advise great caution before proceeding. Better yet, purchase from a known & reputable dealer so there's no question of authenticity.

Whats the asking price on this one? I ask as you may be able to get one without question for a similar price depending on what you're looking for. Are you set on a presentation sword or do you want a representative one? Lots to consider.

 

[bobinwmass]

I am always suspicious of sellers on Ebay selling expensive swords but giving us lousy photos. Also not saying this is a fake, but not in the best condition. Some aspects do look correct for a period sword, and Fitch did use blades from a variety of makers. I'd say that in the least, the scabbard drag is a poor fitting replacement because the original one was likely missing. And what is up with those marks on a blade, was it put in a vice? Here are some photos from my 1862 Fitch FO sword so you can compare details.

 

[Rhea Cole]

You can purchase reproductions ranging from poor quality stage props to museum quality indistinguishable from the original. There is no shortage of original swords of all kinds. There is also an almost unlimited number of swords dolled up to fool people into paying top dollar.

Reproductions are not "fakes." A reproduction buried in the ground to get a patina & then given false markings is intended to deceive. For example, a highly respected dealer recently said that, apart from items from established collections, he had not evaluated an authentic Confederate item in ten years.

As bobinwmass said, crummy photos on eBay are crummy for a reason. You have done exactly the right thing. Honest actors like those on CivilWarTalk will go out of their way to educate you.

 

[bayonet]

E-Bay really??!! Don't do it. I see no pics of the inscription, wonder why. For me leather scabbards are too much work to maintain (to each's own) plus how many originals are in good condition.

 

[66Jayhawk]

I'm with Bob...eBay sellers with bad pictures make me hesitant. That said, the sword itself is authentic (I'm not aware of anyone making Clauberg reproductions) and it looks exactly like mine (pic attached). I think the drag is a definite replacement (mine is much shorter than the one pictured in the eBay listing), and there is no way of knowing if the scabbard was original to the sword. FInally, with the fuzzy pics...does the seller actually have this sword or did they rip photos from a real listing or take photos from their cellphone of an original listing. If you ask for a particular picture and they can't provide it, that's a good way of checking. Ask for a closeup of the drag and the eagle on the blade.

Eric

 

[Salterr]

I'm with Bob...eBay sellers with bad pictures make me hesitant. That said, the sword itself is authentic (I'm not aware of anyone making Clauberg reproductions) and it looks exactly like mine (pic attached). I think the drag is a definite replacement (mine is much shorter than the one pictured in the eBay listing), and there is no way of knowing if the scabbard was original to the sword. FInally, with the fuzzy pics...does the seller actually have this sword or did they rip photos from a real listing or take photos from their cellphone of an original listing. If you ask for a particular picture and they can't provide it, that's a good way of checking. Ask for a closeup of the drag and the eagle on the blade.

View attachment 533045

Eric

That's exactly how I deal with moderating my civil war Facebook group scammers. They steal images from dealers and google searches so asking for a photo that isn't on a site is a great way to find the fake sellers. They'll always have some excuse to not show you additional photos

 

[JackADriscoll]

You can also learn a lot by looking at bidding activity watch out for possible shills etc