Muzzleldrs About Plains rifles.

Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Location
Texas
If I am not mistaken, Pedersoli sells most of their Hawkins style guns in both percussion and flint variants, with a few being percussion only. The brown finish on the lock looks consistent with the guard and barrel, but I don't remember their "Rocky Mountain" or "Missouri River" Hawkens' having a factory patch box...
Oh, my bad, that pic isn't from the Pendersoli website, it's from google images. Stock images for "Plains rifle."
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Location
Texas
Here is the Missouri Hawken I was looking at on the Pendersoli website.
115S.208-S.295.jpg
 

Booner

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May 4, 2015
Location
Boonville, MO.
If I am not mistaken, Pedersoli sells most of their Hawkins style guns in both percussion and flint variants, with a few being percussion only. The brown finish on the lock looks consistent with the guard and barrel, but I don't remember their "Rocky Mountain" or "Missouri River" Hawkens' having a factory patch box...
The four rifles in the first post are, from top to bottom; (the first three are"factory"rifles, the flinter is a custom made)
An Ithaca Hawken
A Jeddia Smith commorative hawken
A Santa Fe hawken
The flinter is a custom made hawken with a Green River Rifle Works barrel, Hawker shop furniture, and a L & R flintlock
 
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seirbhiseach

Cadet
Joined
Feb 26, 2020
Location
Western PA
The four rifles in the first post are, from top to bottom; (the first three are"factory"rifles, the flinter is a custom made)
An Ithaca Hawken
A Jeddia Smith commorative hawken
A Santa Fe hawken
The flinter is a custom made hawken with a Green River Rifle Works barrel, Hawker shop furniture, and a L & R flintlock
Well, whatever it may be, it certainly is a sweet looking gun...
 

Peter Stines

Sergeant
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Gulf Coast of Texas
If I am not mistaken, Pedersoli sells most of their Hawkins style guns in both percussion and flint variants, with a few being percussion only. The brown finish on the lock looks consistent with the guard and barrel, but I don't remember their "Rocky Mountain" or "Missouri River" Hawkens' having a factory patch box...
Looking at it closer it's probably a custom gun. Probably from Track of the Wolf. The offer both full and half stock and flint or percussion plains rifles. Expensive too!
 

Peter Stines

Sergeant
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Gulf Coast of Texas
In Chapman's book THE IMPROVED AMERICAN RIFLE (originally published in 1840's) he goes into detail about target rifles used for hunting and warfare. It shows the variety of conical bullets, patching, toggle type starters and more. It's a good primary source if you're interests are in sniper rifles of the mid 19th century. This one was republished several times over the years. No doubt the information carried on throughout the century.
 

Peter Stines

Sergeant
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
Gulf Coast of Texas
View attachment 350384
Admittedly, just an engraving... Still, here is Harriet Tubman, aka. "Minty" Araminta Ross (*Mar. 1822 MD--†10 Mar. 1913), abolitionist, "slave stealer," spy, scout, suffragette, coming soon (maybe?) to a 20 dollar bill near you... Perhaps.

In this image one sees an army camp or tents in the background, and she is carrying a tarred U.S. army haversack, which suggest the image was meant to convey the spy and scout working for the Union. She holds a Hawken type "Plains rifle." This is one of the images released into the public domain not long ago by the Smithsonian.
The artist who did this one obviously knew what a rifle looked like. I've seen a LOT of period drawings and such and it was pretty clear the artist had NO IDEA what a gun looked like. The facial features and anatomy in this illustration look right and I'd like to know the artist's name.
 

Rhea Cole

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
There are several stories of Confederate sharpshooters who had special rifles. But I'm like @Booner --- for the life of me I can't remember the details.
One was a Confederate cavalry raider in Mississippi area who had a 4 gauge gun. I don't think he was Clubfoot Fort.
Then there is the civilian in middle Tennessee who took on the Union army to revenge the death of his son. Can't recall his name either.

But these are individual cases and relate more to guerilla's than regular military.
The story about the sniper Jack Hinson killing men from the Iowa unit who killed his son has one significant historical hitch. During the time it operated in the area where the sniping was supposed to take place they had no casualties, zero. Unfortunately, most of "the true story of one man's... war against the invaders of his country." is counter factual. I know the man who owns Hinson's rifle & have handled it several times. It is a typical target shooting rifle of the time. Like most of them, it has a pistol hammer. It was believed that the movement of the hammer could jerk the rifle off target. There are hashmarks cut into the barrel in two locations. Hinson himself never said a word about what he did or did not do.

Tom McKenney's research was nothing more than unsubstantiated recollections coupled with his own fertile imagination. When I asked him about the records of the Union regiments that were supposed to be the victims of Hinson's revenge showing no casualties, he just sat there & gulped. Apparently, it had never occurred to him to look anything up or cross check the tall tales he collected.
 

Rhea Cole

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
It occurred to me that some of the folks reading this thread might not have a clear idea of what plaines rifles, Hawkins & long-range target/sniper rifles looked like. In this case, a picture really is worth a thousand words. For what it is worth, the long barreled plaines rifle in the Tuchman illustration looks just fine to me. Re: Figure #3 in the plaines rifle plate below.

shaprshooter group photo 1st company Mass sharpshooters.jpeg

1st Company Massachusetts Sharpshooters

Morgan James target rifle:sniper rifle.jpeg

Morgan James long-range target rifle used by the sharpshooters in image above.
Notice the false muzzles on some of he soldier's rifles.

target rifles.jpeg

Pre-War Target Rifles

Rifle #1 in this plate is a light target rifle, 12 lbs, intended for shooting out of hand. The others are heavy bench rifles.

Plaines Rifles.jpeg

Plaines Rifles


This plate of Plaines Rifles is from Our Rifles pp 48 by Charles Winthorp Sawyer. Has anybody ever seen an example of #9?

number 9.jpeg
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Location
Texas
It occurred to me that some of the folks reading this thread might not have a clear idea of what plaines rifles, Hawkins & long-range target/sniper rifles looked like. In this case, a picture really is worth a thousand words. For what it is worth, the long barreled plaines rifle in the Tuchman illustration looks just fine to me. Re: Figure #3 in the plaines rifle plate below.

View attachment 350812
1st Company Massachusetts Sharpshooters

View attachment 350813
Morgan James long-range target rifle used by the sharpshooters in image above.
Notice the false muzzles on some of he soldier's rifles.

View attachment 350816
Pre-War Target Rifles

Rifle #1 in this plate is a light target rifle, 12 lbs, intended for shooting out of hand. The others are heavy bench rifles.

View attachment 350817
Plaines Rifles


This plate of Plaines Rifles is from Our Rifles pp 48 by Charles Winthorp Sawyer. Has anybody ever seen an example of #9?

View attachment 350818
Thanks Rhea!
 

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