A little venting

[scarter92]

I just wanted to vent for a moment about interaction in my unit.

I had been doing a great deal of research on outfits and accoutrement and mentioned this on an email thread of members. Apparently one of the older men took affront, saying that about every decade new reenactors came along and tried to do research that had already been done.

While it is possible that that is true , to say so with so little tact was surprising to me. I later asked this individual about particular styles of coats, to which he told me I was at a point where I needed to do my own research and not depend on him (I would add here that I usually don't ask questions unless I've researched and have some idea of the answer ). This guy also told me how he had learned to ask questions in college.

So I said to myself, what shall it be, to ask questions of those who claim to be knowledgeable or to do my own research?

I put this dialogue out there not for advice, but rather food for thought. Be careful how you come across in email and reflect upon your words before you hit send. If you want younger men or women in your unit, consider how you sound to them when you appear indignant about the very things that attract people to the hobby.

I understand that the hobby can attract eccentricity, but I hope that my insecurities can be less revealed.

 

[PeterT]

I sense your frustration. I think life is too short not to enjoy it all, right now. I am not American but I would hope people would be embracing anyone's interest in the civil war.

 

[TinCan]

Well, at least he didn't go berserk about the type of buttons you have on your jacket, bless his heart!

 

[unicornforge]

Reenacting is a hobby with a representation of pretty much the whole spectrum of the population.

My advice then is to stick close to those you get along with.... and to find a reenacting group that you admire and enjoy being with, and find out what and where they purchased their equipment so that you fit into that group and don't stick out like a galactic stormtrooper at an Easter Parade.

 

[poorjack]

I'll say it again- life's too short to deal with knuckleheads. Find a unit that you socially mesh with and join that one. Let's face it, you're reenacting, not joining the "real" military and units from that era were made up of people generally from the same town/area of a state and would have likely have known many in their companies. So join a unit where you are happy to be around and enjoy the hobby.

 

[Northern Light]

There is always someone in every group who either never learned or has forgotten how to play nicely. It is best to just ignore these people as much as possible and practice being a duck by letting it all roll off your back. Some people just enjoy being hard to get along with, but then again, you never know what is going on in their lives that makes them contentious.

 

[James B White]

Group solidarity and following group tradition often is stronger than wanting to follow history or become more accurate, so someone who brings forth new information or challenges (asks questions about) the old may not be received well. Challenging old research may be as simple as asking "what's your evidence?" If the unit guru can't produce it, his status is called into question and it's a personal attack. Seen it happen many times.

 

[Allie]

There's always that one guy in any group of hobbyists. He's usually older, in groups with an even distribution of sexes is as likely to be female as male, has been there since forever and he values his status as dispenser of wisdom a bit too much. Investigation into his life outside the hobby usually discovers that he has paid a price for his obsession by falling behind in the metrics other people use to measure success. He may wear his hair and beard in a style which makes him unemployable, or at least limits his options, or hold a degree which does the same, and he may spend enough on the hobby to have materially fallen behind others in his peer group. He gets most of his personal feelings of achievement from mentoring new people until they learn he's a windbag and grow away from him. Usually he holds some title within the group that allows him to martyr himself doing work no one else wants to do, which he feels gives him authority. Twenty years ago this person may have been genuinely kind and enthusiastic, but by the time he's reached his full development he's likely to be a toxic personality driven by barely understood bitterness. Why don't others appreciate his years of experience?

You offended him by not needing him, so then when you did ask a question he withheld information in an attempt to show his power. In our local SCA group we call such people by the name of one such local guru, who shall go nameless here in case he ever reads this.

It's a shame that often these very unattractive people (I'm referring to personality, although they have a tendency to be physically offputting as well) become the gatekeepers new members are most likely to encounter. But it's hard to stop that from happening. Because they have no lives, they are willing and eager to interfere in the lives of others. Nicer, more sensible people simply can't compete.

 

[Patrick H]

There's always that one guy in any group of hobbyists. He's usually older, in groups with an even distribution of sexes is as likely to be female as male, has been there since forever and he values his status as dispenser of wisdom a bit too much. Investigation into his life outside the hobby usually discovers that he has paid a price for his obsession by falling behind in the metrics other people use to measure success. He may wear his hair and beard in a style which makes him unemployable, or at least limits his options, or hold a degree which does the same, and he may spend enough on the hobby to have materially fallen behind others in his peer group. He gets most of his personal feelings of achievement from mentoring new people until they learn he's a windbag and grow away from him. Usually he holds some title within the group that allows him to martyr himself doing work no one else wants to do, which he feels gives him authority. Twenty years ago this person may have been genuinely kind and enthusiastic, but by the time he's reached his full development he's likely to be a toxic personality driven by barely understood bitterness. Why don't others appreciate his years of experience?

You offended him by not needing him, so then when you did ask a question he withheld information in an attempt to show his power. In our local SCA group we call such people by the name of one such local guru, who shall go nameless here in case he ever reads this.

It's a shame that often these very unattractive people (I'm referring to personality, although they have a tendency to be physically offputting as well) become the gatekeepers new members are most likely to encounter. But it's hard to stop that from happening. Because they have no lives, they are willing and eager to interfere in the lives of others. Nicer, more sensible people simply can't compete.

Wow, Allie, that is a scathingly accurate profile. I don't reenact, but I've run into this personality profile a lot of times.
I'm generally a fairly happy go lucky sort of guy, so I tend to forget these people are out there. I get surprised all over again whenever I meet one. I've been around long enough that I've run into several.

I really enjoyed reading your profile of the type.

 

[John Winn]

I think Allie may be right. As one who has been a member of a number of groups I can say I've also noted that there's often the "big fish, small pond" type of thing going on. One or two individuals can dominate even if they don't hold some official office. They're often the old-timers and just feel they know more and , I think, are frightened that they might be sidelined by new, enthusiastic blood especially if a newbie has new ideas that might lead to changes. These types have just got used to being in control and feel that they somehow own the organization and are entitled to more consideration. They don't want anything to change, especially if it might mean people no longer kowtow to them.

Sorry to hear that you've encountered one of the difficult folk.

 

[Chattahooch33]

Group solidarity and following group tradition often is stronger than wanting to follow history or become more accurate, so someone who brings forth new information or challenges (asks questions about) the old may not be received well. Challenging old research may be as simple as asking "what's your evidence?" If the unit guru can't produce it, his status is called into question and it's a personal attack. Seen it happen many times.

Good stuff here.

My advice is find a group that is accurate and inviting... problem solved.

 

[scotish swampfox]

Also, the prove it to me guys that follow only the old thinking of the war. History is full of unanswered facts commimg to ligjt all the time.

 

[RebYell64]

I was absolutely blessed to find the group I did. They were almost about ready to dress me out right there at the battlefield, and have never belittled me for not knowing, or looking 100% because it's true, even the biggest fish in the pond was a newbie at one time.

The best thing to do in my opinion is to find a unit, and if you aren't comfortable, don't stick around. It's okay to be picky....these boys and gals will eventually become your Reenacting Family.

 

[Waterloo50]

On a positive note, as a newbie to this forum I have never been made to feel silly or embarrassed by a single member. In-fact I think that I have always been impressed by the way other members of the forum have positively encouraged my questions. I recently posted a question about a cavalry action and I had a very nice response from a member who has written several books on the subject, now that did impress me. I consider myself very lucky to be able to pick the brains of some very knowledgeable people on this forum and I am always amazed that they always encourage me to learn more. Some of these reenactors could learn a lot from the members of the ACW forum. I honestly think you should all give yourself a pat on the back for being so warm and friendly.

Kind Regards

Waterloo

 

[GenDeb]

You offended him by not needing him, so then when you did ask a question he withheld information in an attempt to show his power.

One of the best lines ever. Wish I had known that in my corporate days...

 

[PeterT]

One of the best lines ever. Wish I had known that in my corporate days...

This is spot on. Or in corporate land they ask a question they know the answer to and when you don't answer it quite correctly they embarrass you to try and impress others of their knowledge/power!

I am always wary of someone who commences a response with "With respect...." I am not sure they always mean it.

 

[major bill]

I went to a re-enactment today and now I am venting over the "uniform' experts there. I am not a re-enactor, but study military uniforms. After talking to a couple of "uniform" experts I have to wonder about what is considered proper research. I will give one example. I was studying a Civil War era militia uniform photogrpah and discovered some one else was researching the same unit. I sent them some of my research and asked if they had found anything different. Today I had an opertunity to talk to the individual and found out just how stupid I am and how poor my research is.

We both seen the same photograph and he decided the image showed a gray uniform with black trim. After viewing the photograph I went through 5 years of 25 local newspapers to see if anything was written about the company. I found two articles that say the uniforms were gray with red trim. I went back twice more and look at the image to see if I thought the trim was red or black. At this point I am going with red trim but am still open to other views.

The other gentleman told me I had wasted my time doing the newspaper work and he could tell right away the trim was black in the photogrpah and did not need to do any additional research and he is going ahead and make a reproduction uniform with black trim. I made the mistake of asking him what was the odds of both newspapers being mistaken about the red trim. He became rather upset and let me know that in 1860 newspaper reporters lack intelligent and probably could not tell red trim from black trim. He then let me know my research methods were completely worn and in general he found me to have a lack of ability and he also questioned my intelligence. I wished him well on making the reproduction uniform.

Should I have really skipped the newspaper research and went with a first impression of the image? I may forgo discussing uniform information with re-enactors in the future.

 

[Allie]

In a black and white photo red appears black. Any actress putting on lipstick in the 1930's knew that.

 

[major bill]

Allie, yes and no. The photographic process of the Civil War and the process of the 1930s were differ. What I use to determine the color in a Civil War image is a modern artist color wheel photographed using Civil War camera equipment and processes. I spin the now black and white wheel and attempt to match up the colors. I also have color wheels photographed using other photographic processes and used them on other period images. when all else fails me I send the image in question to people I know who are experts in this type of thing and ask for help. I do at least try to be diligent but try not to be too certain of anything.

 

[Allie]

Knowing everything makes it hard to learn anything!