A Deceptive Victory

[War Horse]

In late April Banks reported that Jackon was leaving the valley; at the time Jackson was in fact leaving the valley to shelter in the Blue Ridge.
In May Bank reported on Jackson's movements including telling HQ that Jackson was approaching to attack him.

not doubting you. I just finished Gwynne a short time back and will have to have another look. My memorie seems to recall Banks sending several mistaken messages that Jackson had left the valley when in fact he was practically under Bank's nose all along.

 

[FarawayFriend]

Maj.Gen.Meade what does "Good Thread this" mean?

Sorry to intrude, but can it mean something else other than the good General is enjoying good storytelling??

In late April Banks reported that Jackon was leaving the valley; at the time Jackson was in fact leaving the valley to shelter in the Blue Ridge.
In May Bank reported on Jackson's movements including telling HQ that Jackson was approaching to attack him.

Hey, Ned, don't ruin a great story ! Even if you recall it differently, always keep Shelby Foote in mind!
This story is also reported here, I just will give the beginning, not to ruin the suspense ...
"It was Robert E. Lee who masterminded one of the most significant ruses of the entire war. In May 1862, Lee surmised that a portion of Maj. Gen. Nathaniel Banks' force in the Shenandoah Valley might be preparing to link up with Irvin McDowell's contingent at Fredericksburg. This was a cause of great concern to Lee, who recognized the danger McDowell would pose if sufficiently reinforced. As it developed, one of Banks' divisions was making its way toward Fredericksburg, where McDowell was preparing for a pincer movement against Richmond. Meanwhile, on the Peninsula, McClellan had been ordered to effect a junction with McDowell's left flank...."

 

[War Horse]

In late April Banks reported that Jackon was leaving the valley; at the time Jackson was in fact leaving the valley to shelter in the Blue Ridge.
In May Bank reported on Jackson's movements including telling HQ that Jackson was approaching to attack him.

Jackson marched his army east towards Conrad's Store. From this location Jackson could establish a strong defensive, control swift run gap in the Blue Ridge Mountains (allowing him to establish a line of communication and reinforcement on the other side of the Blue Ridge) and give him capacity to launch attacks against Bank's command. As Jackson moved his army east into the concealed position at Conrad's store , General Banks interpreted the movement as a Confederate withdrawal from the valley. On April 19th Banks wired the war department "I believe Jackson has left the valley yesterday. He is reported to have left Harrisonburg yesterday." Three days later Banks confirmed his report " Jackson has abandoned the valley of Virginia permanently, en route, for Gordonsville by way of the mountains. Although Banks incorrectly believed Jackson had left the valley and no longer posed a threat something still troubled Banks in Mid-April: The numerous supply problems confronted the Union forces in the valley.


https://books.google.com/books?id=F...ts Jackson is no longer in the valley&f=false

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

@War Horse ... yes, what @FarawayFriend wrote... "This is a good thread". Bit more grammaticularly goodest that way.

 

[War Horse]

@War Horse ... yes, what @FarawayFriend wrote... "This is a good thread". Bit more grammaticularly goodest that way.

Thank you, and as usual it already has me scratching my head. To many times in these story threads (which I love so much) I am lead to question what I think I know. It's a good exercise.

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

@War Horse here's the link to where @67th Tigers argued ferociously and with much factual stuff that Magruder never did any such thing as march in circles at Yorktown, much less baffle McClellan. http://civilwartalk.com/threads/white-house-of-the-confederacy-video.112985/#post-1112086

His contention was that McPherson created the story in 1988, confusing it with a 1916 article describing how Magruder pulled the trick at Sabine Pass. I think he lost that argument. But as to his secondary claim that no one contemporaneously recorded any such action by Magruder, including the man himself, he seems accurate (although he discounts Mary Chesnut).

 

[diane]

One of my favorite stories of Jeb Stuart isn't about a victory won by ruse but about his scouts. Three or four of them were skulking about the rear of McClellan's army in the dead of night, seeing what they could find before daylight when all at once the whole heavens and earth broke apart around them. They were so scared they ran into each other and flew out of there like they had wings, then came to a screeching halt. They realized the terrifying sound was 5,000 Union mules braying in unison for their breakfast!

 

[War Horse]

@War Horse here's the link to where @67th Tigers argued ferociously and with much factual stuff that Magruder never did any such thing as march in circles at Yorktown, much less baffle McClellan. http://civilwartalk.com/threads/white-house-of-the-confederacy-video.112985/#post-1112086

His contention was that McPherson created the story in 1988, confusing it with a 1916 article describing how Magruder pulled the trick at Sabine Pass. I think he lost that argument. But as to his secondary claim that no one contemporaneously recorded any such action by Magruder, including the man himself, he seems accurate (although he discounts Mary Chesnut).

Thank you, I will review it. I do understand we can't always believe what we read. Lol, I am the author of the "I read it on the internet thread" It bites me every time. Which is why I try to always read my books. Unfortunately I travel and am constantly without my books so I go from memory and use the internet to support my memories and my posts.

 

[War Horse]

One of my favorite stories of Jeb Stuart isn't about a victory won by ruse but about his scouts. Three or four of them were skulking about the rear of McClellan's army in the dead of night, seeing what they could find before daylight when all at once the whole heavens and earth broke apart around them. They were so scared they ran into each other and flew out of there like they had wings, then came to a screeching halt. They realized the terrifying sound was 5,000 Union mules braying in unison for their breakfast!

I thought you were heading toward the learning that little mac had special order 191. What a discovery for the Stuart camp. I had never heard of the mule story. Thank you for sharing.

 

[War Horse]

@War Horse here's the link to where @67th Tigers argued ferociously and with much factual stuff that Magruder never did any such thing as march in circles at Yorktown, much less baffle McClellan. http://civilwartalk.com/threads/white-house-of-the-confederacy-video.112985/#post-1112086

His contention was that McPherson created the story in 1988, confusing it with a 1916 article describing how Magruder pulled the trick at Sabine Pass. I think he lost that argument. But as to his secondary claim that no one contemporaneously recorded any such action by Magruder, including the man himself, he seems accurate (although he discounts Mary Chesnut).

Challenging McPherson would require considerable knowledge and confidence.

 

[LoriAnn]

They were so scared they ran into each other and flew out of there like they had wings...

We like to call that behavior "Bee Panic" in my house (after a shameful backyard incident involving several otherwise clear thinking adults and one kinda large bee).

 

[diane]

We like to call that behavior "Bee Panic" in my house (after a shameful backyard incident involving several otherwise clear thinking adults and one kinda large bee).

At one of the tribe's get-togethers the kids knocked down a wasp nest...full of wasps who were heap plenty mad, and they have notoriously wicked tempers. We found we had some darn good dancers that day, and hadn't lost our reputation for being fleet of foot. There were miracles, too - quite a few arthritic elders were healed and could run with the best of us!

 

[War Horse]

@War Horse here's the link to where @67th Tigers argued ferociously and with much factual stuff that Magruder never did any such thing as march in circles at Yorktown, much less baffle McClellan. http://civilwartalk.com/threads/white-house-of-the-confederacy-video.112985/#post-1112086

His contention was that McPherson created the story in 1988, confusing it with a 1916 article describing how Magruder pulled the trick at Sabine Pass. I think he lost that argument. But as to his secondary claim that no one contemporaneously recorded any such action by Magruder, including the man himself, he seems accurate (although he discounts Mary Chesnut).

How can anyone discount Mrs. Chesnut. She has been quoted by every historian I have ever read.

 

[Package4]

In late April Banks reported that Jackon was leaving the valley; at the time Jackson was in fact leaving the valley to shelter in the Blue Ridge.
In May Bank reported on Jackson's movements including telling HQ that Jackson was approaching to attack him.

There was no sheltering in the Blue Ridge, Jackson was going after Milroy, since Fremont dispatched them to Staunton, Jackson ordered Ewell to cross the Blue Ridge at Conrad's Store and take his (Jackson's) position on Bank's flank at Harrisonburg. Jackson and Johnson would combine, defeat Milroy and then quickly turn to defeat Banks, with Ewell.

There were two valleys, Luray and Shenandoah, separated by the Blue Ridge; Jackson with the help of his cartographer, Hotchkiss utilized each to maneuver shielded from the enemy.

In fact Banks reported on 4/28-"Our force is entirely secure here. The enemy is in no condition for offensive movements...I think we are now just in condition to do all you can desire of us in the valley....." Two days later he reported "Jackson is bound for Richmond. This is the fact, I have no doubt" Just how wrong he was would have disastrous results.......

 

[LoriAnn]

There were miracles, too - quite a few arthritic elders were healed and could run with the best of us!

 

[War Horse]

At one of the tribe's get-togethers the kids knocked down a wasp nest...full of wasps who were heap plenty mad, and they have notoriously wicked tempers. We found we had some darn good dancers that day, and hadn't lost our reputation for being fleet of foot. There were miracles, too - quite a few arthritic elders were healed and could run with the best of us!

Oh, I have seen a few miracles in my life. My grandmother could be an Olympic sprinter when I needed to be convinced her point of view was law and not just a suggestion.

 

[War Horse]

There was no sheltering in the Blue Ridge, Jackson was going after Milroy, since Fremont dispatched them to Staunton, Jackson ordered Ewell to cross the Blue Ridge at Conrad's Store and take his (Jackson's) position on Bank's flank at Harrisonburg. Jackson and Johnson would combine, defeat Milroy and then quickly turn to defeat Banks, with Ewell.

There were two valleys, Luray and Shenandoah, separated by the Blue Ridge; Jackson with the help of his cartographer, Hotchkiss utilized each to maneuver shielded from the enemy.

In fact Banks reported on 4/28-"Our force is entirely secure here. The enemy is in no condition for offensive movements...I think we are now just in condition to do all you can desire of us in the valley....." Two days later he reported "Jackson is bound for Richmond. This is the fact, I have no doubt" Just how wrong he was would have disastrous results.......

Thank you kind sir!

 

[War Horse]

There was no sheltering in the Blue Ridge, Jackson was going after Milroy, since Fremont dispatched them to Staunton, Jackson ordered Ewell to cross the Blue Ridge at Conrad's Store and take his (Jackson's) position on Bank's flank at Harrisonburg. Jackson and Johnson would combine, defeat Milroy and then quickly turn to defeat Banks, with Ewell.

There were two valleys, Luray and Shenandoah, separated by the Blue Ridge; Jackson with the help of his cartographer, Hotchkiss utilized each to maneuver shielded from the enemy.

In fact Banks reported on 4/28-"Our force is entirely secure here. The enemy is in no condition for offensive movements...I think we are now just in condition to do all you can desire of us in the valley....." Two days later he reported "Jackson is bound for Richmond. This is the fact, I have no doubt" Just how wrong he was would have disastrous results.......

May I ask whom you are quoting?

 

[Package4]

May I ask whom you are quoting?

That was Banks' report to the War Department via Robertson's Stonewall Jackson p 368. Due to another forum, I decided to read the work, which I have had on the shelf for over 10 years and am I glad I did. The book reads like a novel, but is full of primary source material, highly recommended.

 

[War Horse]

That was Banks' report to the War Department via Robertson's Stonewall Jackson p 368. Due to another forum, I decided to read the work, which I have had on the shelf for over 10 years and am I glad I did. The book reads like a novel, but is full of primary source material, highly recommended.

I have it and I agree totally.