Trivia 3-10-2020 Words Mean Things

[Trivia Master]

Joshua Chamberlain once asked a former student of his "What is the difference between a fort and fortress?". A fortress is a fort, but not all forts are fortress' - like all colleges are schools but not all schools are colleges. At the outbreak of the Civil War, how many fortress' were there in the states and what were the names?

credit: @SWMODave

 

[hughes]

one
Fortress Monroe

 

[SWMODave]

This is one of those things you read and immediately think - what a great trivia question. I looked for multiple sources to verify the authenticity of the answer. Hope it was an interesting hunt and that you were successful.

 

[captaindrew]

The only one I could find including fortress in it's name is Fortress Monroe. There are some forts described as fortress' but don't seem to be under the strict definition of the two. A confusing question to me.

 

[Irishtom29]

This is a subjective question. We had Fortress Monroe of course but that was just a name: one can argue that by European contemporary standards we had no fortresses; I'm talking about Ulm, Poznan, Babruysk, Modlin, Brest, Sveaborg, Ehrenbreitstein etc.

Poznan

 

[streetwiseprof]

Fortress Monroe--Virginia.
Fortress West Point--NY.

 

[DBF]

It seems like not everyone (including me) knows the difference between "fort" and "fortress". My first search took me here And in this source titled: "Fortress America: The Forts That Defended America, 1600 to the Present, by J. E. Kaufmann, H. W. Kaufmann - they list on pages 412-414 about 4 columns wide of forts - no fortresses. (Link Here)

Then I found that according to Popular Mechanics "The Worlds 20 Most Impressive Fortresses" you find the following and their ranking:
#15 -Fort Jefferson - Florida Keys
#21 - Fort Sumter
#22 - The Alamo as they explain "it became a defensive structure during an attack by Santa Anna and his army in 1836".
#24 - Castillo de San Marcos, Florida
#26 - Fort Independence, Massachusetts
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/g2441/the-worlds-20-most-impressive-fortresses/?slide=15

I also found Fort Monroe at one time was called Fortresses Monroe.
https://www.loc.gov/rr/geogmap/placesinhistory/archive/2011/20110509_fortressmonroe.html

If I had a towel - I'd throw it at the computer.

 

[stuart1861]

Four: Fortress Alcatraz, Fortress Monroe, Fort Zachary Taylor, Old Fort Jackson.

Source: Hannings, Bud. Forts of the United States: An Historical Dictionary, 16th through 19th Centuries, McFarland & Company, 2006. Pages 36, 77, 86.

 

[James N.]

I can only think of ONE - Fortress Monroe on the Virginia Peninsula; I believe all the other seacoast fortifications were Forts.

 

[Wallyfish]

Yikes! Clearly the tone of the question is attempting to differentiate between a Fort and a fortress. I found a site that listed Civil War "Forts" at the start of the war. There were ~30 of them and I am sure that was not the intent of the question to list 30 fortresses. So I started to read detail on each of the forts that were around in April '61.
After about an hour of reading it was clearly evident that forts and fortresses were terms that were being used synonymously.

I could find no source that provided a clearcut answer as well. So I started digging in NPS or loc.org sites. I can find three sites that have been deemed fortresses by government documents, The 3 are.

Fortress Alcatraz - San Francisco
Fortress Jefferson Dry Tortuga
Fortress Monroe - Chesapeake Bay mouth

All 3 were used during the CW period and are documented to be more than just a Fort. I read a lot on New York Forts but no references to a fortress can be found. Interestly, there is a French & Indian war site near me that has been listed as a fortress because both civilians and military people lived there. It was around in 1861 but has nothing to do with the CW.

Best I can do.

Fortress Monroe Source

Fortress Alcatraz - Alcatraz Island (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[Peace Society]

That's been a question in my mind. Is Fort Monroe and Fortress Monroe the same place?

Edit - Yes, it's the same place. It was referred to as Fortress Monroe throughout the Civil War, but through most of its history it has been referred to as Fort Monroe.

hoosier

 

[FarawayFriend]

My search was extremely disappointing.
Many sources would again not open up for Europeans, others had the critical pages excluded from Google books, and the rest mostly used the word "Fort" and "Fortress" as synonyms.

So my answer is: 1 fortress, named Fortress Monroe, because it is the only one I know that has the word "Fortress" in its official name. Although at the outbreak of the Civil War it had been long renamed Fort Monroe. But the "LoC Civil War desk reference" also connects the word "Fortress" only with Fort Monroe.

Other sources say presidios were fortresses, that would include the Presidio at San Francisco. Another source named Alcatraz a "military fortress", and again another source said Fort Ticonderoga was the significant fortress between the war of 1812 and the Civil War. There were more examples, naming other forts as fortresses, e.g. Fort Jefferson
As these sources seem to name Forts/Fortresses at random, I do not even list them here.

Congrats to those who found the right number of forts.

 

[Brenal]

Beats me!

 

[FarawayFriend]

Oops, forgot to give proof that the "LoC Civil War Desk Reference" only links Fort Monroe with the word "Fortress". Here comes a photo from the respective page in the subject index:

 

[JOHN42768]

Well here goes: Five----Alcatraz in California, Citadel in S.C., Monroe in Va., Sumter in S.C. , West Point in N.Y.

 

[hoosier]

Not sure whether it is the distinction Chamberlain had in mind, but the book "Harriet Tubman: The Road to Freedom" by Catherine Clinton comments on Tubman's arrival at Fort Monroe, Virginia. The book indicates that Fort Monroe, which was completed in 1834, was mistakenly called Fortress Monroe throughout the Civil War, but it does not satisfy the definition of a fortress. A fort is a fortification containing a garrison. A fortress encloses a town within its walls. Fort Monroe did not enclose a town.

I can think of only one Civil War location that would satisfy that definition. Vicksburg.

Edit - Apparently Vicksburg wasn't really a fortress, either, since it wasn't completely enclosed. I was just casting about for any location that might possibly fit, assuming Monroe was not a correct answer.

hoosier

 

[warbird43]

This is a tricky one; I'm working under the presumption that what is being asked for is how many fortress' were in the United states. If that is correct, the field is narrowed considerably. The terms "fortress" and "fort" are used interchangeably in most writings I am familiar with; "fort" being the most common. Most of the fortifications at the beginning of the War in 1861 ended up in southern territory, with the exception of Fortress Monroe, Virginia (it is referred to as Fortress Monroe throughout the OR). All the others are referred to as "forts".

So, I'll go out on a limb: How many fortress' were there in the United States and what were the names ? One, Fortress Monroe.

 

[Michigander]

1. According to the source I found there apparently was only 1 fortress in America prior to the civil war.
2. Fortress Monroe
Source

 

[WJC]

Joshua Chamberlain once asked a former student of his "What is the difference between a fort and fortress?". A fortress is a fort, but not all forts are fortress' - like all colleges are schools but not all schools are colleges. At the outbreak of the Civil War, how many fortress' were there in the states and what were the names?

credit: @SWMODave

The term 'fortress' generally applies to the large masonry fortifications built by the United States Army for coastal defense beginning in 1819.
There were 32:
Fort Gaines and Fort Morgan in Alabama; Fort Delaware in Delaware; Fort Clinch, Fort Marion, Fort Zachary Taylor, Fort Jefferson, Fort McRee, and Fort Pickens in Florida; Fort Pulaski, Fort James Jackson in Georgia; Fort Jackson, Fort St. Philip, Fort Livingston, Fort Macomb, Fort Pike in Louisiana; Fort Knox (manned but unfinished), Fort Preble, and Fort Scammell in Maine, Fort Carrol (unfinished); Fort Independence, Fort Rodman (unfinished) and Fort Warren in Massachusetts; Fort Massachusetts (unfinished) in Mississippi; Fort Hamilton, Fort Schuyler, and Fort Richmond (unfinished) in New York; Fort Caswell and Fort Macon in North Carolina, Fort Sumter in South Carolina; Fortress Monroe and Fort Wool in Virginia.
Interestingly, most were called "forts". Even Fortress Monroe in Virginia was frequently referred to as 'Fort Monroe'!

 

[lelliott19]

I'll guess there was only one actual Fortress.
Fortress Monroe (Hampton, VA) Source

The Taney County Republican., (Forsyth, MO), August 09, 1900, page 7.