2 Atrocities and Payback

peteanddelmar

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#1
Wikipedia, citing "Some Great Big Civil War Encyclopedia".

" Before leaving the field, some African-American soldiers of the 2nd Kansas Colored regiment shot Confederate wounded near Rice’s line in retaliation for the shooting of African-American soldiers who were trying to surrender at Poison Spring and the killing of wounded African-American soldiers at Marks’ Mill".[36]

It is saddening to me that the racial hatred of Missourians and Arkansans had caused them to slaughter wounded or surrendering black troops in 2 previous battles before Jenkin's Ferry. What they did then caused payback by the 2nd Kansas Colored Infantry as they responded in kind.

I know Fort Pillow is famous, but these depredations so close to home sadden me. I suppose it probably happened all over the war z0ne, but I hate it.
 

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#2
"Some Great Big Civil War Encyclopedia".
Seriously? Thats the source?! Its like the people who, when asked what the primary source is for some point of info, say "I got it at the library." :banghead:

To me the whole history of race is sad. The things that have been done to "others" worldwide boggles the mind.

Thanks for posting. This was news to me. :playfull:
 

peteanddelmar

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#3
Seriously? Thats the source?! Its like the people who, when asked what the primary source is for some point of info, say "I got it at the library." :banghead:

To me the whole history of race is sad. The things that have been done to "others" worldwide boggles the mind.

Thanks for posting. This was news to me. :playfull:
Sorry, that's my lazy translation of the title of an actual ACW Encyclopedia that was cited.

It happened more than it was recorded in Arkansas and Texas and MO. According to different soldiers that escaped and fled, then travelled many miles to different headquarters or other safety.
 

rhettbutler1865

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#5
Wikipedia, citing "Some Great Big Civil War Encyclopedia".

" Before leaving the field, some African-American soldiers of the 2nd Kansas Colored regiment shot Confederate wounded near Rice’s line in retaliation for the shooting of African-American soldiers who were trying to surrender at Poison Spring and the killing of wounded African-American soldiers at Marks’ Mill".[36]

It is saddening to me that the racial hatred of Missourians and Arkansans had caused them to slaughter wounded or surrendering black troops in 2 previous battles before Jenkin's Ferry. What they did then caused payback by the 2nd Kansas Colored Infantry as they responded in kind.

I know Fort Pillow is famous, but these depredations so close to home sadden me. I suppose it probably happened all over the war z0ne, but I hate it.
Can you imagine the number of incidents where soldiers of both sides shot a wounded or surrendering foe--that have never been recorded? Must be quite a large number...and yes, it is sad...and maddening!:frown:
 
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#7
My husband's great-grandfather was killed at Marks' Mill. It was my understanding that the black people shot there were not soldiers but civilians following the soldiers?
 

AUG

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#8
Some may remember that this incident was shortly depicted in the opening scenes of the movie Lincoln.

According to Harvest of Death: The Battle of Jenkins' Ferry by Joe Walker, the 2nd Kansas Colored Infantry (commanded by Col. Samuel Crawford) and the 29th Iowa Infantry fixed bayonets and charged Lt. John O. Lockhart's Battery across Groom's Field, with the battle cry "Poison Springs!" The battle was primarily fought in the mud and rain. They overran the guns and began killing many of the crewmen and other wounded Confederates on the field; the men of the 29th Iowa were trying to hold them back from doing so. Lt. Lockhart was slightly wounded and captured; he was brought to Col. Crawford, who actually released him, but with the message that it was the 2nd Kansas Colored who captured those guns, along with the reason why they did what they did.
 

Jamieva

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#9
Can you imagine the number of incidents where soldiers of both sides shot a wounded or surrendering foe--that have never been recorded? Must be quite a large number...and yes, it is sad...and maddening!:frown:
I just finished a book on the Somme there are several first hand accounts, on both sides, of no quarter being given and local commanders telling British troops to take no prisoners.

One of the German "tricks" was to surrender, then the front line british soldiers would tell the prisoners to stay where they are for the 2nd line to come pick them up. As soon as the 1st line started to walk away the Germans would gun them down.
 

alexjack

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#10
There are inevitably many emotions associated and involved with fighting, fear, hatred, a desire for revenge for friends lost are just a few and soldiers can't turn these feelings off and on at will. Soldiers of every army since time immemorial have sometimes killed their prisoners.
“A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.”
– Sir Winston S. Churchill, 1952. (The Observer)
 

rhettbutler1865

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#11
There are inevitably many emotions associated and involved with fighting, fear, hatred, a desire for revenge for friends lost are just a few and soldiers can't turn these feelings off and on at will. Soldiers of every army since time immemorial have sometimes killed their prisoners.
“A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.”
– Sir Winston S. Churchill, 1952. (The Observer)
Good old Winston--that's one way of looking at it.
 
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#13
My father was in he 14th Army in Burma, He never liked twp peoples -Japanese and Australians - because he always said they never took prisoners.
I can't speak for what happened in Burma but the Japanese took quite a few US prisoners and some Dutch and Aussies. On the other hand to survive captivity one had to be on the lucky side of life. I also seem to recall the Japanese took a lot of British prisoners when Singapore fell and they formed an exile army from Indian troops that they captured.
If your father saw Aussies killing captured Japanese troops I would not be surprised.
Has far as the CW go's being captured in the CW was a lot like being captured by the Japanese in terms of survival odds.
Leftyhunter
 
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#14
Wikipedia, citing "Some Great Big Civil War Encyclopedia".

" Before leaving the field, some African-American soldiers of the 2nd Kansas Colored regiment shot Confederate wounded near Rice’s line in retaliation for the shooting of African-American soldiers who were trying to surrender at Poison Spring and the killing of wounded African-American soldiers at Marks’ Mill".[36]

It is saddening to me that the racial hatred of Missourians and Arkansans had caused them to slaughter wounded or surrendering black troops in 2 previous battles before Jenkin's Ferry. What they did then caused payback by the 2nd Kansas Colored Infantry as they responded in kind.

I know Fort Pillow is famous, but these depredations so close to home sadden me. I suppose it probably happened all over the war z0ne, but I hate it.
Killing prisoners in war is has old has the hills. Why should we be surprised it happened? The miracle is it didn't happen more.
Leftyhunter
 
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#15
Aussies weren't the only ones killing prisoners...we didn't exactly have a spotless record of that in the Pacific (or in Europe). Although in our troops' defense they were pretty hot after some things -- rather like the fellows in the OP. Doesn't make it right, but a lot of things aren't right.
 

AUG

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#16
Usually the Japanese could not be captured; they would fight until they were killed or took their own lives. In all the PTO memoirs I've read - Eugene Sledge's, Robert Leckie's, Sterling Mace's, and others most haven't heard of - non ever mention taking prisoners. Usually any Japanese soldiers found alive were killed instantly, as Allied troops couldn't risk helping them without putting their own lives in danger. It was a different story in the ETO or MTO, but the war against the Japanese in the Pacific was often take-no-prisoners. And usually any Allied troops captured or found wounded in the field were tortured to death by the Japanese in horrific ways - the infamous Goettge Patrol on Guadalcanal for example - so the Allies weren't always eager to take prisoners either.
 
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#17
Unionist and USCT troops learned the hard way that if they surrendered they stood a good chance of being killed anyway. Why not return the favor has some did.
Leftyhunter
 

ole

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#18
Unionist and USCT troops learned the hard way that if they surrendered they stood a good chance of being killed anyway. Why not return the favor has some did.
Leftyhunter
Humans have always been ever thus. Kick me and see what you get. Kick that guy and see what you get. I might fold and he might fold, but you can't KNOW.
 
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#19
I can't help thinking about the movie "Lone Survivor"---They could not bring themselves to kill a goat herding kid and lost the entire patrol except one and a helicopter full of other special forces coming to the rescue. Hard decisions sometimes in war. My son-in-law was British special forces, both Gulf wars, Royal Marines. Missing in action during the first war--Letter to his mother etc.---He's never mentioned it. His mother has. That is how I know. I don't ask about any of his operations--He has to volunteer info which is not often.
 

ole

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#20
**it happens, and guys like your son-in-law elect to shovel it.

I have nothing but admiration for those guys on the leading edge. There is hope there.
 



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