Grant 1868 Election

[MikeyB]

Quick question for the Grant or politicos:

How the heck did Grant win any Southern states in 1868? Let alone, Alabama, Arkansas and South Carolina??

I found this fascinating.
mike

 

[uaskme]

Black voting in the South. Republicans required it in the newly formed State Constitutions. The Racist North, exempted themselves. You know, all of those Abolitionist, and a Black Population Of 2%. Too big of a threat to their ****.

Constitutional Rights Foundation

Following the Civil War, Radical Republicans in Congress introduced a series of laws and constitutional amendments to try to secure civil and political rights for black people. This wing of the Republican Party was called “radical” because of its strong stance on these and other issues.

www.crf-usa.org

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Black voting in the South. Republicans required it in the newly formed State Constitutions. The Racist North, exempted themselves. You know, all of those Abolitionist, and a Black Population Of 2%. Too big of a threat to their ****.

Constitutional Rights Foundation

Following the Civil War, Radical Republicans in Congress introduced a series of laws and constitutional amendments to try to secure civil and political rights for black people. This wing of the Republican Party was called “radical” because of its strong stance on these and other issues.

www.crf-usa.org

And obviously a much larger threat to certain White Southerners, for just a few years later beginning in the 1870's once Reconstruction ended, the Southern states enacted various laws that made it nearly impossible for most Black's to vote, and the ones that could were threatened, harmed or killed. This example of Southern racism would last almost another 100 years.

 

[Bruce Vail]

Black voting, primarily. According to Wiki, 500,000 newly enfranchised black men voted for the first time. The presumption is that almost all of them voted for Grant.

Corruption should not be discounted for some of the vote totals. Voting fraud was endemic in that era. Reconstruction governments in the South were often accused of rigging the vote totals and that likely happened to some degree. The fact that New York state went to the Democrat Seymour seemed an obvious example of voting fraud on the other side.

 

[MikeyB]

That makes sense. But weren't these populations big majority/minority type demographics? (ie. you may have a lot of Republican freedman, but don't the white southerners still out number and are voting almost exclusively D?)

 

[gentlemanrob]

Well it was during Reconstruction 1868 was a little different then the 1872 election because in 1868 the Democratic party actually nominated a Democrat with New York Governor Horatio Seymour they put a General on the ticket with Francis P. Blair Jr as VP Candidate. In 1872 the Democratic Party only endorsed the Liberal Republican Party ticket nominating Horace Greeley. Unfortunately Greeley dies before the Electoral College met and his electoral votes were split

 

[uaskme]

That makes sense. But weren't these populations big majority/minority type demographics? (ie. you may have a lot of Republican freedman, but don't the white southerners still out number and are voting almost exclusively D?)

Many Whites were excluded or didn't Vote

 

[uaskme]

And obviously a much larger threat to certain White Southerners, for just a few years later beginning in the 1870's once Reconstruction ended, the Southern states enacted various laws that made it nearly impossible for most Black's to vote, and the ones that could were threatened, harmed or killed. This example of Southern racism would last almost another 100 years.

Don't change the Obvious Fact that the North didn't adopt Universal Black voting until Later. Republicans actually tried to restrict poor white voting. Finally the hypocrisy was more that even the Yankee could Justify!

 

[Carronade]

That makes sense. But weren't these populations big majority/minority type demographics? (ie. you may have a lot of Republican freedman, but don't the white southerners still out number and are voting almost exclusively D?)

In the 1860 census, South Carolina had more blacks than whites and Alabama almost as many.

Arkansas was one of the border states which initially rejected secession and only joined the Confederacy after Lincoln's call for troops. There was considerable Unionist sentiment, particularly in the north, a mountainous region of small farmers and few slaves, like eastern Tennessee or western Virginia.

 

[MikeyB]

Black voting, primarily. According to Wiki, 500,000 newly enfranchised black men voted for the first time. The presumption is that almost all of them voted for Grant.

Corruption should not be discounted for some of the vote totals. Voting fraud was endemic in that era. Reconstruction governments in the South were often accused of rigging the vote totals and that likely happened to some degree. The fact that New York state went to the Democrat Seymour seemed an obvious example of voting fraud on the other side.

I'm not familiar w/ the politics of the time, but I thought New York was a Democratic state back then, why would Democrat Seymour winning New York be suspicious?

 

[archieclement]

Don't change the Obvious Fact that the North didn't adopt Universal Black voting until Later. Republicans actually tried to restrict poor white voting. Finally the hypocrisy was more that even the Yankee could Justify!

And obviously a much larger threat to certain White Southerners

I think it should be accepted the whole nation (or 99% of it was racist) and it extended to politics as well...Theres little need for this north/south back and forth rhetoric.....from anyone really IMO....36 states eventually passed some version of Jim crow laws.....it wasn't just one area.......

 

[gentlemanrob]

I'm not familiar w/ the politics of the time, but I thought New York was a Democratic state back then, why would Democrat Seymour winning New York be suspicious?

I thought in New York Boss Tweed was still pretty much running the state.

 

[uaskme]

I think it should be accepted the whole nation (or 99% of it was racist) and it extended to politics as well...Theres little need for this north/south back and forth rhetoric.....from anyone really IMO....38 states eventually passed some version of Jim crow laws.....it wasn't just one area.......

Upper Half don't recognize it.

 

[Bruce Vail]

I'm not familiar w/ the politics of the time, but I thought New York was a Democratic state back then, why would Democrat Seymour winning New York be suspicious?

New York State has been characterized since the 1850s by heavy Democratic Party majorities in NYC and very strong Republican Party votes in the remainder of the state. Lincoln had won the state in 1860 and 1864 and had a very powerful party organization under the direction of Thurlow Weed/William Seward. They fully expected to win the state in 1868 and Seymour's razor thin margin (less than 10,000 votes) carried the strong smell of Tammany Hall vote fraud.

Outside of NYC the Republican Party remained strong in the state through Gilded Age and until quite recent times. NY regularly sent Republican candidates to the US Senate into the 1990s and were usually very competitive is statewide races, especially for Governor. Some upstate regions (like the Hudson Valley county where I grew up) always vote Republican no matter what, even to this day.

 

[Bruce Vail]

I thought in New York Boss Tweed was still pretty much running the state.

Not so. Tammany Hall had a powerful grip on NYC but had not yet grown strong enough to call the shots in the state capital in Albany. Seymour was not a Tammany man, and had an on-again, off-again friendship with Tammany leaders.

 

[WJC]

Contrary to popular opinion, Grant was quite popular among southerners post ACW. Perhaps it was respect for his success. Perhaps it was because of the fairness of his terms at Appomattox and continuing leniency to former rebels.

 

[GrantCottage1885]

Richmond Dispatch July 1867: "upon him [Grant] the whole nation, North and South, may unite with more harmony than any prominent man yet named, who stands the remotest chance of being elected." Not only was there some pro-Grant feeling in the south as a moderate peace candidate, but there was also divisions in the Democratic party which weakened it. In addition to the substantial African-American vote in southern states, the states of MS, TX and VA were not eligible to participate in the election of 1868 at all.