1864 Springfield made by Remington

[Commodore1966]

Greetings...
I am in the process of possibly buying an 1864 Springfield rifle...appears in good shape. The lock plate is stamped REMINGTON'S. Below this is
ILION, N.Y.
However, the barrel bands tighten with screws much like the 1863 Springfields. I can find no record of this. It is my understanding that 1864 models went back to spring held barrel bands.
Cause for concern? The seller is asking a hefty price. This is not necessarily a problem if I can figure out the barrel band question. It's a no-go on purchase if the stock is a replacement. Seller claims a Remington increases value...I'm more of a shooter than collector.
Thanks to all who can help.....
Commodore1966

 

[JOHN42768]

Pictures needed, but it sounds like you are describing the Remington 1863 rifle. This was not connected to Springfield. Go online and search Remington 1863 Rifle. Made 1863-65. Look at photos.

Remington Model 1863 Percussion Contract Rifle

 

[JackADriscoll]

Recent Find - Muzzleldrs - 1863 Remington Zouave Rifle | Small Arms & Ammunition

I am looking for the aforementioned and came across two "good" listings. The first, is in a bit rougher condition- probably battle used with nicks and scars but no cracks, dents or major imperfections (B -/+ ?). Seller asking $2,800. The second looks nearly Prestine condition, and it looks...

www.google.com

Here's a good old thread on this topic

 

[rob63]

I think he is talking about the Remington contract of the Model 1861, not the "Zouave" rifle.

Harry Ridgeway's reference library says that the screw tightened barrel bands would be correct.

Ridgeway Reference Library, Civil War plates and buckles

Here is an example that just sold at an auction I went to today, that was in mint condition, that also has the screw tightened barrel bands.

https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/remington-mod-1861-58-cal-single-shot-rifled-musk_79342918EF?catalogReferredQueryParam=%253Fkeywords%253Dremington

 

[Commodore1966]

Pictures needed, but it sounds like you are describing the Remington 1863 rifle. This was not connected to Springfield. Go online and search Remington 1863 Rifle. Made 1863-65. Look at photos.

Remington Model 1863 Percussion Contract Rifle

Thanks for the response...much appreciated. I have a '63 Springfield made by Colt...barrel and lock plate match..the barrel rings are "screw type" as appropriate for the year. My research indicated '64 Springfields went back to barrel ring "springs". The '64 I'm thinking about buying has "screw" rings...something is off...either with me or seller. Have yet to find a photo of a Springfield '64 made by Remington. Therein lies the rub....

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Thanks for the response...much appreciated. I have a '63 Springfield made by Colt...barrel and lock plate match..the barrel rings are "screw type" as appropriate for the year. My research indicated '64 Springfields went back to barrel ring "springs". The '64 I'm thinking about buying has "screw" rings...something is off...either with me or seller. Have yet to find a photo of a Springfield '64 made by Remington. Therein lies the rub....

It sounds like you're looking at a Remington contract US Model 1863 Rifle-Musket. Remington contracted for 20,000 of them in August of 1863, with an additional 20,000 ordered in December. Remington deliveries began in June of 1865 and continued until March of 1866. It seems Remington was given preferential treatment with his contract and allowed to finish it though the need for arms no longer existed, possibly due to his good relations with the Ordnance Department stemming from the firm's attractive pricing of revolvers during the war.

You should pick up a copy of George Moller's "American Military Shoulder Arms, vol. 3". It will save you considerable confusion.

 

[johan_steele]

We need pictures to make any kind of suggestions. Otherwise all we can give are a WAG, wild *** guess.

If they are asking a hefty price you have the right to ask for detailed pictures. If they won't provide them walk away.

 

[Private Joseph]

We need pictures to make any kind of suggestions. Otherwise all we can give are a WAG, wild *** guess.

If they are asking a hefty price you have the right to ask for detailed pictures. If they won't provide them walk away.

I would say that with the tremendous amount of knowledge on this forum, you included, it would be a SWAG (Scientific Wild *** Guess).

 

[Commodore1966]

We need pictures to make any kind of suggestions. Otherwise all we can give are a WAG, wild *** guess.

If they are asking a hefty price you have the right to ask for detailed pictures. If they won't provide them walk away.

Thanks for the quick response. Until I can get a photo of an original Remington made '64 Springfield...I'll pass on it. The seller is in no big hurry.

 

[Commodore1966]

It sounds like you're looking at a Remington contract US Model 1863 Rifle-Musket. Remington contracted for 20,000 of them in August of 1863, with an additional 20,000 ordered in December. Remington deliveries began in June of 1865 and continued until March of 1866. It seems Remington was given preferential treatment with his contract and allowed to finish it though the need for arms no longer existed, possibly due to his good relations with the Ordnance Department stemming from the firm's attractive pricing of revolvers during the war.

You should pick up a copy of George Moller's "American Military Shoulder Arms, vol. 3". It will save you considerable confusion.

Thanks for the reply. I have just about every detail for the Remington made '64 Springfield other than a photo to determine proper barrel bands. I'm gonna hold off purchasing until this is figured out. I appreciate the help...

 

[rob63]

Thanks for the reply. I have just about every detail for the Remington made '64 Springfield other than a photo to determine proper barrel bands. I'm gonna hold off purchasing until this is figured out. I appreciate the help...

If you would scroll back up to post #4 and read it, you will find links to photos of the Remington made guns that you are looking for, but you have to click on the links to see them.

 

[Commodore1966]

I think he is talking about the Remington contract of the Model 1861, not the "Zouave" rifle.

Harry Ridgeway's reference library says that the screw tightened barrel bands would be correct.

Ridgeway Reference Library, Civil War plates and buckles

Here is an example that just sold at an auction I went to today, that was in mint condition, that also has the screw tightened barrel bands.

https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/remington-mod-1861-58-cal-single-shot-rifled-musk_79342918EF?catalogReferredQueryParam=%253Fkeywords%253Dremington

Thanks for all the help. The links you provided re-enforced a couple of other sources that verified the Remington-made Springfield to add to my Springfield collection.
Ya'll know your stuff!...appreciate it.

 

[TNBandit]

Thanks for the response...much appreciated. I have a '63 Springfield made by Colt...barrel and lock plate match..the barrel rings are "screw type" as appropriate for the year. My research indicated '64 Springfields went back to barrel ring "springs". The '64 I'm thinking about buying has "screw" rings...something is off...either with me or seller. Have yet to find a photo of a Springfield '64 made by Remington. Therein lies the rub....

It's NOT a Springfield ! This is where you're going off the rails. As others have told you already the Remington rifles were different.

 

[Commodore1966]

It's NOT a Springfield ! This is where you're going off the rails. As others have told you already the Remington rifles were different.

Sorry to burst your bubble....It is a Remington made rifle on contract from Springfield to mirror the 1863 type 2 Springfield.
The only difference is that it was made by Remington. Colt made them, Sarson and Roberts, Parker, Snow & Co., Norwich Arms just to name a few. If you want to call it a "Springfield type" rifle go ahead. If I scratched off the maker's mark from the lock you wouldn't be able to tell me wh made it other than to say it sure does look like a Springfield.