1863 Zouave

Gibbs

Private
Joined
May 25, 2018
Location
Fennville, MI USA
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Went to local gun store Friday evening to pick up some FFFg black powder. They are the only ones in the whole area that even carry the real stuff. Saw this hanging behind the counter and the guy let me hold it and then he held it so I could take some pictures. Looks like it was made in 1963, not 1863... really, it looked excellent with nice blueing on the barrels and great overall condition.

Got my 2 lbs of FFFg and will try that in the Armisport Enfield a little later after the rains pass.



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I've never understood why these rifles were never issued during the Civil War.
 
Redbob said: "I've never understood why these rifles were never issued during the Civil War."
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There's some confusion about that. There's an official government record that indicates the remaining post-war inventory of this pattern gun happens to match the numbers of the 1982/63 Remington contract alone.

The hitch might be that the government didn't specifically consider this a new pattern of gun, but rather a follow-on order of the 1855 Harpers Ferry and prior "Mississippi" 1841 rifle of the same pattern. Each iteration had improvements and noticeable-to-us differences in the hardware, but nothing so radically different that the government would assign them a different rack in inventory. In other words this Remington contract was essentially just a follow-on order of the the same 2-band pattern previously accepted. Because of that, the inventory didn't specify withdrawals of the 1863 iteration specifically, meaning that some of them could have gone out during the war (horrors and screams from the campaigners here).

In any event, this Remington contract rifle, is what today we call the "Zouave" because some Zouave units used rifles of the pattern (2-banders equipped with the long-bladed bayonet).

All said and done the 1862/63 iteration represents the peak of cap-and-ball rifle technology, before breech-loaders supplanted them as the primary issue rifle. These Remingtons were used for worldwide shooting competitions after the war, in part because these fine shooting rifles were made available as surplus.

Because it had such a good reputation in the post-war, the type was among the first the Italian reproduction makers felt would sell, and early reenactors found the repros (or even surviving originals) an attractive buy. As repro 3-banders came into the reenacting mix the two-banders became (unfairly) reviled as inauthentic and not safe in rank fire with three-banders. In truth the 1863 repros were good guns, just misunderstood, even if some repros were better than others.

The one pictured in the OP here seems a gem, wherever it was hiding out. If nothing else a primary example of a CW-era cap and ball rifle, and perhaps still quite viable for live-fire if the bore checks out, though as an artifact it has more value I would think. If a repro, someone has taken great effort to de-farb and apply period markings.
 
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Chances are it's a reproduction, as it has been reproduced since the late 1950s. It was called "zouave" purely as a marketing gimmick. No zouave unit is known to have been armed with them specifically. They are a fine gun. Some would say they are the perfection of the 1855 rifle. Short barrel, blued. Most reproductions are good shooters. I used to have one that I enjoyed quite a lot. I'm not sure we'll ever do anything about the disrespect they get from the reenacting community, but you can't do better for a firing rifle. They can also be modded into a replica of some of the more uncommon and obscure rifles of the time.
 
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
What catches my eye is that marking at the back left of the barrel, opposite the nipple, "STEEL R. K. A.". What is that?
 
RKA was the inspector who was Remick K. Arnold 1862-1877
 
First off, no it's not a reproduction that has been well defarbed.

Nice One. What was he asking for it and why didn't you leave with it.:D
I didn't have $2999.99 cash on me + sales tax.

The originals sold at first re-enactments for around $20.00 back around 1957. They were the real deal, saved in warehouses and Val Forgett who had started up Navy Arms, bought one in mint condition, sent it off to Italy to be copied and the resulting copy could not be called "Remington model 1863" at the risk of being sued, so in a marketing ploy he named them 1863 Zouave after the elite fighting group. Name stuck.

They are somewhat a cross, as I read of the 1841 Mississippi rifle and the model 1855. Good reading here: http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/civil...ngfield-rogers-spencer-bannerman-p58-1861.htm

This link provide some information that they are believed to have seen some use, by Grant's Heavy Artiliary Units, serving as rear guards (so to speak) and saw few issued and limited use during the latter part of the war, being turned in later for Springfields. And that reference is found here: https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showt...on-Civil-War-Issue-of-the-Zouave-Musket/page2 post #19 and the idea of the "Zouave" name referenced here: https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showt...on-Civil-War-Issue-of-the-Zouave-Musket/page3 Post #26.
 
Looks sweet! And great condition but a pretty price tag to match it’s pretty condition!!
 
You know you're a real man when you've done bayonet drill with that sword bayonet, too. That's cool that it's an original!
 
So as I understand "most" of the 1863 Remington arms .58 were stored many years and there are many that are in pristine shape because of the lack of actual use. I saw in one of the links I posted above that at one time the real deal could be bought for as little as $20.00 Now $2999.99 and as one link also had one at $2400, thereabouts. So what about the reproductions that were made like them? What price is a good one going for these days? Navy Arms, has some made in South Korea. Wonder about the steel and production tools they used for them back in the 1970s. Are they any good?
 
Go to the N-SSA Bulletin Board and search their "Wanted/For Sale" page. There you will find what the reproduction competitive shooting grade Italian reproduction "Zouave" actually sells for. I would stay away from anything that isn't Italian, or Miroku.
J.
 
Enfield 2-banders or other Confederate type two-banders a separate issue, Federal rifles of the OP pattern were issued often enough -- whether 1841, 1855 or 1863 iteration. It should never have become the reenactment issue it did in the late 1990s, early 2000s. It seems shaming of the gun has slackened since then. After all there are far more obvious and deserving things to shame before obcessing over 1841/1855/1863 iterations of the same gun pattern. It should always have been more about what type of unit you portray and acknowledging the odd-lot gun or three that found their way into occasional use in any kind of unit or circumstance during the war.

In these period image examples we can see that, sure enough, many of the pattern found were issued to Zouave units -- so just a 20th-century marketing ploy but some basis to the nickname "Zouave" as well.

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