Real or Faux? 1860 dated Lovell pattern musket

Musketman111

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Jun 8, 2020
I thought I’d show some pictures of what I believe is a Lovell pattern musket used by the confederacy in the civil war. I picked it up for 300$ As just an antique musket. the marking on the lock was almost invisible. I Lightly cleaned It up using Kramer’s improver on the lock and the crown ,tower and 1860 date marking appeared. The barrel also appears to have been shortened by half an inch. The rear sight has also been removed. The musket shows heavy wear from long use.
I would love to know if truly is what I think it is and what it might be worth.

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Rusk County Avengers

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Location
Coffeeville, TX
It certainly looks like one. A P1842 to me, though I'm no expert.

When the I saw the title saying Lovell pattern my mind automatically went to the Lovell's Pattern of 1839 with the back-action lock.

I'm surprised this gun has an 1860 date, I thought them not made or marked as such by then.
 

Musketman111

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Jun 8, 2020
Im sure checking inside the action would help shed some light as well I bet. But I’m a bit stuck as one of the screws is severely stripped if anyone has an idea on how to remove that without damage the help would be much appreciated.

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lelliott19

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Musketman111

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I’ve been looking for the v remate stamps so far the only v stamp I’ve found is on the stock next to the 29 there is possibly one in the cleaning rod channel it’s so faint I can’t get it on camera. I’ve found what is possibly some writing near the toe and some markings on the other side of the stock.

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OldSarge79

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Pisgah Forest, North Carolina
It's either a British Pattern 1839 or a Pattern 1845 Extra Service musket. I lean toward the 1845 due to the keys holding the barrel, although some pieces have come up with pins.
Pattern 1839's are pretty rare. There are more 1845's out there.
The Pattern 1839's were actually India Pattern Brown Besses converted to percussion, and most had a Hanoverian bayonet catch.

This is a thread from British Militaria Forums with definitions.on its third page. Look for discourse between "Leveson" and "Adrian."
 
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OldSarge79

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I just noticed that yours does have a Hanoverian catch. You might just have a Pattern 1839.

Let me suggest that you post it on British Militaria Forums. Your gun might take some very detailed analysis.

Also, are there any marks near the butt plate tang?
 
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ucvrelics

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Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. Out of my wheelhouse so we will see what the enfield gurus have to say.
 

Lanyard Puller

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@lelliott19 supplied the link to Tim Prince's very thorough write up on the P1839s.
These were re-conditioned in the early 1850's to make up for a shortage of muskets with whatever parts available. If the lock is dated 1860 it must be a Pattern 1853 which was added during the life of this old girl, as it's very poorly fitted. Quite a few of these along with Pattern 1842 and Pattern 1851 came to the South early in the War, but there's no way to tell unless it is so marked.
 

Musketman111

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Thank you guys so much for feedback!
I was reading through some of stuff you guys linked. The pattern it most seems to match is a pattern 1839 that’s been rebuilt a few times. it has a buttplate with a long tang that’s pinned, a Hanoverian catch and a Long trigger guard tang with two screws. I thought the date was 1860 on there but after looking at it closer The last two numbers the top half is missing it’s just to hard to tell what it says.
I’d like to take the barrel off to see if there’s a makers mark under there but one of pins is bent is there any way to fix that.

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lelliott19

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I thought the date was 1860 on there but after looking at it closer The last two numbers the top half is missing it’s just to hard to tell what it says.
I did a little work on the image of the lockplate.
Decreased brightness -20% and increased contrast +20%
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Brightness -20% Contrast +40%
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It still looks like 1860 to me. Maybe if you can get some close ups of the date from different angles, I can do the same to them and figure out what the numbers are?
 

Musketman111

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I’ve found what looks like 3 proof marks of some sort on the barrel they are near impossible to make out. And I’ve also found what looks like a very small v proof

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Musketman111

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So I went over to the British Militaria forum and it was confirmed with reasonable confidence that it was a p-1839 1st type With a commercial made lock while also going over the musket I found a barnet remate mark in the ramrod channel
“the bottom of the barrel and in the ramrod channel. This mark has been over struck with the assembly mark | | | |”


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