1830's USMC Uniform

[Manassas 1861]

What did the USMC fatigue uniform look like during the Seminole War in the 1830's. I cant find any info on USMC uniforms of this period besides the dress uniform. I know it's not ACW, but I thought sense this is the uniform forum I should ask my question here. Thanks.

 

[redbob]

I don't know how accurate this is, but this was used as an illustration of the Marine Corps in the Seminole War.

 

[RedRover]

The Marine Corps uniform of 1834 was Green, in conformity with the wishes of President Jackson that the revolutionary war uniforms be reflected (the Continental marines wore green). Green coat with gray trousers, etc. From the Company of Military Historians, Military Uniforms in America series...

Fatigue clothing included gray cloth jackets, with yellow trim, or white linen for summer etc. A flat topped black leather forage cap.

The green uniform was not preferred, and in 1839 a blue uniform was adopted. The uniform somewhat similar to that of the Army's artillery.

Cloth fatigue jackets of sky blue adopted, without any trimmings.
A blue cloth forage cap adopted 1840 or so to replace the leather one.

Marine Corps officers, 1839...

 

[Borderruffian]

The Marine Corps uniform of 1834 was Green, in conformity with the wishes of President Jackson that the revolutionary war uniforms be reflected (the Continental marines wore green). Green coat with gray trousers, etc. From the Company of Military Historians, Military Uniforms in America series...

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Fatigue clothing included gray cloth jackets, with yellow trim, or white linen for summer etc. A flat topped black leather forage cap.

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The green uniform was not preferred, and in 1839 a blue uniform was adopted. The uniform somewhat similar to that of the Army's artillery.

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Cloth fatigue jackets of sky blue adopted, without any trimmings.
A blue cloth forage cap adopted 1840 or so to replace the leather one.
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Marine Corps officers, 1839...
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And Forrest Green is still the color of the Service Alpha Uniform, because according to the " knowledge" instructors at RTR : Green is the Color of the rifleman " err, err, semper Gumby sir err arr" or at least that's the company line. YMMV.

 

[danny]

Looks like the one I wore

 

[Borderruffian]

Looks like the one I wore

So everyone but Archibald Henderson is Boot to you !! You are one salty dog!!!! Ooohraahh!!!

 

[major bill]

Marine fatigue uniforms of that era could also include a tall green forage cap that resembled a cloth shako. These had a very wide white sides and a green band. Images of these caps are rare. Originally caps are very rare. Let me see if I can find an image.

Easier to find than I thought. This a a photo from a one hour lecture I attended about Marine uniforms of the 1830s.

 

[major bill]

Here is the Company of Military Historian plate showing the enlisted uniforms. Note the senior NCO wears a double breasted coatee. Also two types of long arms are shown.

I probably have the one page text for both Company of Military Historians plates. Here is a book you might find interesting. It has a section about Marines in the Second Seminole War which includes three color images with description.

There is also this book that describes the uniforms of the Marines. The 1830s uniform are discussed, it shows a color plate with four uniforms from the 1830s.

 

[Manassas 1861]

Here is the Company of Military Historian plate showing the enlisted uniforms.

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I probably have the one page text for both Company of Military Historians plates. Here is a book you might find interesting. I has a section about Marine of the Second Seminole War which includes three color images with description.

View attachment 500677
There is also this book that describes the uniforms of the Marines. The 1830s uniform are discussed, it shows a color plate with four uniforms from the 1830s.

View attachment 500678

Thanks for the suggestions, I already have the Osprey book but I'll check out the other book. Thanks.

 

[major bill]

I am sure I have a few other images of the 1830s uniforms, but finding them would require me to look around a bit. I know I have a series of Marine uniform postcards, but not sure where I put them.

 

[RedRover]

Marine fatigue uniforms of that era could also include a tall green forage cap that resembled a cloth shako. These had a very wide white sides and a green band. Images of these caps are rare. Originally caps are very rare. Let me see if I can find an image.

Easier to find than I thought. This a a photo from a one hour lecture I attended about Marine uniforms of the 1830s.

Perhaps for an officer?

The enlisted men's forage cap by and during the 1830s was black leather.

Going back to 1811, a black leather forage cap was first suggested:

By 1818, "common leather fatigue caps" were worn. Here's notice of a chap promoting a return to a fatigue hat, which was not ultimately approved...

From 1827, Marines at Philadelphia drilling in their gray fatigue dress:

Here's a sketch by a Navy officer of the Marines in the battle of Quallah Battoo in 1832, in their forage caps...

When the uniform was changed to green coats in 1833 (to be instituted the next year), the regulations continued the use of the same forage cap, which in 1831 was described as "black leather."

"Fatigue Cap: Same pattern as at present worn by the men."

From a description of deserters in 1839:
"They left in their fatigue dress; grey round jacket, grey pantaloons, and flat topped leather caps." [Sun, (Baltimore), 4-22-1839.]

Shortly thereafter the fatigue cap was officially changed to one of blue cloth with the May, 1839 regulations, restoring the blue uniform:

the 1839 uniform was adopted at the behest of Commandant Henderson, who complained of the green cloth, etc.

"April 22, 1839
On the 10th of April 1833 the Uniform of the Corps was changed by an order from the Dept. from blue and scarlet to green and buff.
After a trial of six years it has been found that green cloth cannot be procured to retain its color. In corroboration of this I enclose a letter from the Quartermaster and a communication from the officers on the Philadelphia Station on the subject.
Blue and scarlet have been found the most standing colors and I beg leave to recommend that the enclosed order be issued for the Uniform of the Corps to go into effect when the present supply of clothing is exhausted.
The Quartermaster will hand you this and give any explanations that may be found necessary.
Archibald Henderson, Col. Commandant."

 

[Manassas 1861]

@RedRover . Ive been wondering, where do you find all of this information. You always respond to my questions with amazing info, but where do you find all of it. You post pictures of period illustrations, uniform photographs, period writings, where do you find it all?

 

[RedRover]

Information is everywhere.

Period documents are best. Lots of reading over the years. Lots of good books and interlibrary loans.
Lots of the books I read as a youngster at local libraries and through interlibrary loans are available online today at google books, archive.org, and Hathi Trust, etc. There are also websites to subscribe to vast numbers of newspapers going back to the 1700s, like genealogybank.com, or newspapers.com (Chronicling America by the Library of Congress is free).

Friends have courteously shared information with me (and corrected me a time or two) for many years too.

Illustrations various. The 1827 drilling marines image was published in a Philadelphia Illustrated magazine in 1827. The Quallah Battoo sketch is a detail from an engraving of a sketch of the battle, etc. I have also used images from the Smithsonian's collections catalog search page. As a youngster I interned at the Armed Forces History Division there, and have some memories of some of the stuff I saw in storage.

Here's a source of some Marine Corps uniform information.
McClellan, Marine Uniforms, 1775-1829, Google books

The Company of Military Historians journal since the 1940s has studied uniforms and equipment of soldiers in the Western Hemisphere. Recently members can procure a jump drive with the entirety of the company journal for 100 bucks. Lots of serious research in there from the 1600s to the present.

Military Collector & Historian: page, sample articles...

 

[Manassas 1861]

Thanks for the reply. I'll use those websites to do my own research. I wanted to ask because I can't find stuff like this anywhere, and I ask here and you respond with paragraph after paragraph. I really appreciate it. I'm hoping to do something with military history in my life, so you're a really big help. Thanks.

 

[RedRover]

Thanks for the reply. I'll use those websites to do my own research. I wanted to ask because I can't find stuff like this anywhere, and I ask here and you respond with paragraph after paragraph. I really appreciate it.

I am glad to be of some assistance.
Would recommend searching out what are called "primary" sources, meaning letters or books by participants or witnesses, or relative to direct experience, and legal documents relative to a subject. Most historians might aid in this by referring to their footnotes or endnotes with sources in their articles or books.

It is tempting to assume that historians' tell you everything you want to know, but it can be surprising to track down their sources and find some magnificent and interesting details you didn't even think to look for.

I'm hoping to do something with military history in my life, so you're a really big help. Thanks.

The Virginia Military Institute has produced the "Journal of Military History" for many years. I recall reading in the '90s in it that strictly military history was not much of a thing in the academic industry.
Here's a more recent description on that score:

Ferguson: Decline and Fall of History?

However, many means of historical work and study through museums, battlefield and fort historic sites, etc. Even if not relative to a career, I might recommend perhaps volunteering at a local historical site to understand how such agencies function. Living history volunteering can be fun and simple (or complex), and I've found both the public and the facilities appreciate it when well done.

For a fun and systematic approach to such I highly recommend the book "Time Machines" by Mr. Anderson, available through interlibrary loan, or perhaps used copies on Amazon.

 

[Manassas 1861]

I managed to find a picture of a Marine in a fatigue uniform during the war of 1812. Wearing the 1811 "Glazed Cap". I don't know if these were actually used during the war in combat though.

Artwork by Don Troiani

 

[RedRover]

I managed to find a picture of a Marine in a fatigue uniform during the war of 1812. Wearing the 1811 "Glazed Cap". I don't know if these were actually used during the war in combat though.
Artwork by Don Troiani

In the 1812-15 period, the soldiers, and Marines, uniform was intended for wear on campaign and in battle. Fatigue dress was provided for ordinary working duties, to preserve the uniform. A few years before the War of 1812, the Marines had no fatigue dress allowed for them, though necessary. Consequently on March 27, 1804, orders were given for them to make up some in barracks, etc.

"As the Sea Service is yet in its infancy, Congress could not, as with the Land, be fully acquainted with the duty expected from the Marines, and consequently could not foresee the propriety of a Fatigue Suit….in taking away from the annual allowance of Uniform: One Vest, now unnecessary from the form of the Coatee; one stock, allowing two for three years; three clasps, at all times, useless; two pair of socks;…the following articles may be given in lieu of them: one hat or cap, one Sailor's (common jackett) and one pair of trousers. These being made in Barracks, under the immediate inspection of the Quarter Master, will be issued to the Recruit, who by a proper use of them, will early learn a due regard to his Parade Dress."


By August 23, 1808 grey cloth was being procured to make up the cloth fatigue dress in a more regular fashion, and from that date the fatigue dress was to be worn by the Marines whenever possible in lieu of the expensive uniform.

"The fatigue dress which has been issued for the purpose of preserving as much as possible the Uniform Dress of the Corps will at all times be worn by the men when not on duty. It is therefore expressly order'd that no Soldier be permitted to wear his Uniform except on occasions which require a Military appearance, at or absent from the command, of which the officer Commanding in Barracks will judge."

April 11. 1813 "Have your men wear the "fatigue suit" when not on military duty." Commandant Wharton to 2nd Lt. Samuel Watson.

Here's a contemporary illustration of the Marines uniform of 1813 by Charles Hamilton Smith.

 

[Manassas 1861]

I also found a reference to the cloth shako which major bill posted a picture. This was a cloth cap with a leather top, created in 1819 to replace the 1811 "Glazed Cap".

 

[RedRover]

I also found a reference to the cloth shako which major bill posted a picture. This was a cloth cap with a leather top, created in 1819 to replace the 1811 "Glazed Cap".

Evidently it is in Mr. Troiani's collection. He gives it as a Marine Corps officer's forage cap.

Historical Image Bank, Officer's forage cap...

Although he dates it to 1828, the green and buff cloth body suggests to me it is related to the short-lived 1833-39 Green uniform. In the 1820s the Marine Uniforms were still blue.

The Marine enlisted man's "fatigue caps" in the 1811-1840 period were made of leather. By the 1830s they had a "flat top." Blue cloth fatigue caps thereafter.

When reading period references, certain modern terms can become confusing. For example the US Army and Marine Corps did not employ the word "shako" for their caps in the early 19th Century. That was a European term. Here they were just called "caps."

November 27, 1823 "Ordered that from & after the first day of January 1824 the Non-Commissioned Officers, Musicians and Privates of the Corps, when in Full Uniform, wear the New Leather Caps & trimmings, such as may be furnished by the Qr. Master of the Corps. The Subaltern Officers of the Corps when in Full Dress will wear Caps similar to those worn by the men, with the exception of the Scales, eagle & Band which shall be of gold."

Here's an 1825 illustration of a US Marine wearing that new leather cap...

The "fatigue cap" of leather was distinct from the "cap" as it was worn with the fatigue dress.

The Army also wore "caps," and provided a "forage cap" for wear with their fatigue dress.

 

[Manassas 1861]

Do you know what year the USMC started wearing the "flat tops"? It shows them in the 1827 drilling Marine illustration, and in the Srminole War.