Most Underrated General

[rpkennedy]

Why would the average Billy Yank take up arms and invade the Southern states? Either in unison or separation, he was not hostile to Southerners. Generally, the average person, Billy Yank or Johnny Reb, didn't hate somebody. The Billy Yanks were brainwashed that the South was populated by evil slaveholders. They were COERCED to hate their late countrymen. By telling them that the South was synonymous with slavery and was responsible for breaking the Union, they had controlled his mind and filled his heart with hatred and anger.
On the opposite end, the Johnny Reb rushed to defend his own country, his very state and home from an invader, a disturber of their peace and welfare. This gave them motivation enough to be a whip ready to punish the bull.
Civil War Scholar.

Here's something you may want to consider: the South WAS synonymous with slavery and WAS responsible for breaking the Union.

R

 

[wilber6150]

Why would the average Billy Yank take up arms and invade the Southern states? Either in unison or separation, he was not hostile to Southerners. Generally, the average person, Billy Yank or Johnny Reb, didn't hate somebody. The Billy Yanks were brainwashed that the South was populated by evil slaveholders. They were COERCED to hate their late countrymen. By telling them that the South was synonymous with slavery and was responsible for breaking the Union, they had controlled his mind and filled his heart with hatred and anger.
On the opposite end, the Johnny Reb rushed to defend his own country, his very state and home from an invader, a disturber of their peace and welfare. This gave them motivation enough to be a whip ready to punish the bull.
Civil War Scholar.

You really might want to rethink this line

I generally maintain a neutral viewpoint in my discussions and respect the opinions of others, Union or Confederate.

 

[101combatvet]

Except when the majority of the replacments are draftees or bounty men.....

Were they? Source please.

 

[Civil War Scholar]

And who brain washed the thousands of Southerners that rushed to arms even befor Sumter and even before a single Union man was called up by the government?

President Davis called troops to defend the Confederacy after Lincoln called troops to suppress it. As for Fort Sumter, Anderson had no reason to keep his command there. It was on South Carolina soil and the United States troops had invaded seceded and independent territory.

Here's something you may want to consider: the South WAS synonymous with slavery and WAS responsible for breaking the Union.
R

How? With 93% of white Southerners never owning slaves? The Union as created by the founders was destroyed when Lincoln sought to preserve it with violence. The Union the founders had established was voluntary, not perpetual.
Civil War Scholar.

 

[rpkennedy]

President Davis called troops to defend the Confederacy after Lincoln called troops to suppress it. As for Fort Sumter, Anderson had no reason to keep his command there. It was on South Carolina soil and the United States troops had invaded seceded and independent territory.

How? With 93% of white Southerners never owning slaves? The Union as created by the founders was destroyed when Lincoln sought to preserve it with violence. The Union the founders had established was voluntary, not perpetual.
Civil War Scholar.

Actually, Davis called for 100,000 troops in February 1861, a month before Lincoln even took office.

And, legally speaking, the states were in rebellion and were not independent so, Anderson and Federal troops had every right to be there.

About 30% of Southern households were slaveowning which gives a much more realistic statistic on slave ownership in the South (if you use straight numbers of owners, you're including a lot of people such as women and children who could not legally own any property).

Many of the founders also believed that unilateral secession was unconstitutional so the South, arguably, was in the wrong on that score as well.

R

 

[rpkennedy]

Not saying your wrong, but can I see the source that gives the number at 30 percent?

It comes from the 1860 census. The exact percentage has been posted here a number of times. I'm on my phone and the search function is a bit wonky so if someone can find it, I would appreciate it.

R

 

[Civil War Scholar]

Actually, Davis called for 100,000 troops in February 1861, a month before Lincoln even took office.

And, legally speaking, the states were in rebellion and were not independent so, Anderson and Federal troops had every right to be there.

About 30% of Southern households were slaveowning which gives a much more realistic statistic on slave ownership in the South (if you use straight numbers of owners, you're including a lot of people such as women and children who could not legally own any property).

Many of the founders also believed that unilateral secession was unconstitutional so the South, arguably, was in the wrong on that score as well.

R

Where did you find the info about President Davis issuing a call for 100000 troops as early as Fed. 1861? He was sworn president in that month, but didn't make the proclamation. I searched the events for the particular month and didn't find anything like President Davis calling for troops.
Legally speaking, the states had seceded. Secession was followed by the formation of the Confederacy. The states proclaimed themselves independent after secession and formed the new nation by their own free will.
The numbers are for Southern white males who could vote. Seth may has found the same source with me.
Washington, Jefferson and Madison agreed that secession was a right given to the sovereign states.
Civil War Scholar.

 

[rpkennedy]

I found a source that puts the numbers around 8 percent for the whole country.

When I get home later and on the laptop, I'll see if I can find it.

R

 

[diane]

The Confederates had better soldiers all the away around. Soldiers defending their country against invaders usually do fight better.

Well, I don't disagree with the last sentence but that first one is simply a riff on the old braggadocio line one Southerner can whip five Northern shopkeepers. The only Southern commander who could make that boast stick was Forrest. He really did have 3,000 men who could beat 8,000 Federals!

 

[Civil War Scholar]

And Lee at Sharpsburg had 35000 men and whipped 88000 Federals!
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Rebforever]

Where did you find the info about President Davis issuing a call for 100000 troops as early as Fed. 1861? He was sworn president in that month, but didn't make the proclamation. I searched the events for the particular month and didn't find anything like President Davis calling for troops.
Legally speaking, the states had seceded. Secession was followed by the formation of the Confederacy. The states proclaimed themselves independent after secession and formed the new nation by their own free will.
The numbers are for Southern white males who could vote. Seth may has found the same source with me.
Washington, Jefferson and Madison agreed that secession was a right given to the sovereign states.
Civil War Scholar.

It was the provisional Government that set up what they thought they would need. Davis wasn't even president yet.

 

[rpkennedy]

Where did you find the info about President Davis issuing a call for 100000 troops as early as Fed. 1861? He was sworn president in that month, but didn't make the proclamation. I searched the events for the particular month and didn't find anything like President Davis calling for troops.
Legally speaking, the states had seceded. Secession was followed by the formation of the Confederacy. The states proclaimed themselves independent after secession and formed the new nation by their own free will.
The numbers are for Southern white males who could vote. Seth may has found the same source with me.
Washington, Jefferson and Madison agreed that secession was a right given to the sovereign states.
Civil War Scholar.

It was my mistake. The Confederate Congress called for 100,000 volunteers on March 6, two days after Lincoln was inaugurated, not February as I previously posted. Regardless, it was a full month before Lincoln called for troops.

The seceded states never left the Union based on Texas v White. They acted as a de facto nation but were never legally such.

The numbers you cited are for the total population, not just white males. The fact is, nearly a third of all households owned slaves and men from slaveowning families made up about 40% of the Army of Northern Virginia (based on Glatthaar's statistical study). As such, men from slaveowning families were overrepresented in Confederate forces (particularly those men who enlisted in the initial rush in the spring of '61).

Madison also wrote that secession was unconstitutional in the 1820s. Who are we to believe?

R

 

[Civil War Scholar]

Yes, he was sworn as a provisional President on February 28, I think. How could he issue the proclamation during that month? I wonder...
Civil War Scholar.

 

[wilber6150]

Where did you find the info about President Davis issuing a call for 100000 troops as early as Fed. 1861? He was sworn president in that month, but didn't make the proclamation. I searched the events for the particular month and didn't find anything like President Davis calling for troops.
Legally speaking, the states had seceded. Secession was followed by the formation of the Confederacy. The states proclaimed themselves independent after secession and formed the new nation by their own free will.
The numbers are for Southern white males who could vote. Seth may has found the same source with me.
Washington, Jefferson and Madison agreed that secession was a right given to the sovereign states.
Civil War Scholar.

You might have to go beyond the almanic to find information ...Where do you think the thousands of troops came from that beseiged Sumter and Pickens even before Lincoln called up any troops?

 

[rpkennedy]

And Lee at Sharpsburg had 35000 men and whipped 88000 Federals!
Civil War Scholar.

Lee probably had more men than that (at least 38,000) and only engaged about 53,000 Union troops.

R

 

[wilber6150]

And Lee at Sharpsburg had 35000 men and whipped 88000 Federals!
Civil War Scholar.

Lee whipped the federals at Antietam? Oh like in the same light they won at Gettysburg and Shiloh...

 

[Rebforever]

You might have to go beyond the almanic to find information ...Where do you think the thousands of troops came from that beseiged Sumter and Pickens even before Lincoln called up any troops?

State Militia.

 

[Rebforever]

Boy, this thread is covering everything.

 

[wilber6150]

President Davis called troops to defend the Confederacy after Lincoln called troops to suppress it. As for Fort Sumter, Anderson had no reason to keep his command there. It was on South Carolina soil and the United States troops had invaded seceded and independent territory.

How? With 93% of white Southerners never owning slaves? The Union as created by the founders was destroyed when Lincoln sought to preserve it with violence. The Union the founders had established was voluntary, not perpetual.
Civil War Scholar.

Then its pretty weird that they used used the word perpetual when they formed it....

 

[rpkennedy]

State Militia.

There were some of those and there were some volunteers as well.

R