Nat Turner

[gem]

And how should I see the butchering of children through their eyes? This is simply more nonsense. This isn't subjective. OH, murdering kids is OK if you think you have a good enough reason or are mad enough because someone other than these children have wronged you. I've been a criminal defense lawyer for almost 30 years now. I've seen killers' motivation up close and personal. Trying to justify these child murders as you are, is nothing short of sick. It gives cover to anyone who thinks their "cause" or their wrong outweighs these children's right to live.

You want to lionize the murderous, fine. Just don't pretend you're doing anything else.

The way we should see it through the slave's eyes is that nobody in the slaveholding society is innocent.

That not only goes for Turner's revolt but slave insurrections that have occured throughout the world.

You may not agree with it but that is what history has told us.

 

[CMWinkler]

The way we should see it through the slave's eyes is that nobody in the slaveholding society is innocent.

That not only goes for Turner's revolt but slave insurrections that have occured throughout the world.

You may not agree with with it but that is what history has told us.

History has told us no one is innocent? Well, you may believe that but it is just balderdash. If your premise is correct, then everyone living in the US at the time was equally guilty as they also lived in a slave holding society. More nonsense. Your continued attempts to justify the unjustifiable are increasingly desperate and sickening. Try as you might, you cannot justify child murder as some noble goal.

 

[gem]

History has told us no one is innocent? Well, you may believe that but it is just balderdash. If your premise is correct, then everyone living in the US at the time was equally guilty as they also lived in a slave holding society. More nonsense. Your continued attempts to justify the unjustifiable are increasingly desperate and sickening. Try as you might, you cannot justify child murder as some noble goal.

I've never tried to justify the killing of children as a noble goal. In fact, its a sickening thing.

I've stated that I think slave revolts are revolutionary and thus heroic rather than murder.

Given what I know about the institution of slavery I said I can see how these events happened. It's still reprehensible but I can see how it happened.

That's a lot different than saying killing children is a noble goal.

It's like slavery, its reprehensible but given the thinking of the time I can see how it happened.

 

[Rebforever]

I don't think he ever said he enjoyed being a slave.

Having a kind master just means the situation goes from being really really bad to just really bad.

Most people here seem to agree with you that he was not justified in leading an insurrection, so I guess on that point you're in the majority.

I guess it would be hard for some to even think there may be such a thing as a happy slave.

 

[Rebforever]

its not about how you or I see things its about how things were seen through the eyes of the enslaved.

What were the eyes of the enslaved? The ones I have read was less than .01% out of 3.6 million. Wow.
And none of those said they were happy except a murdering scumbag that some here love!!
I am done here too.

 

[Nathanb1]

Okay. Chill, folks.

That said, I have to ask....so Charles Manson was rebelling against what he considered oppression by the white upper classes and "pigs.".......so tell us, Gem. Do you believe Charles Manson should be honored?

 

[gem]

Okay. Chill, folks.

That said, I have to ask....so Charles Manson was rebelling against what he considered oppression by the white upper classes and "pigs.".......so tell us, Gem. Do you believe Charles Manson should be honored?

Not even remotely.

The slaves had a real cause. It was not something in their heads, it wasn't dreamed up.

If we look at the history of slave insurrections we can see a pattern of behavior. Granted it was an ugly behavior, but their actions were in response to how the perceived the slave system.

 

[JerseyBart]

Comparing Nat Turner to people who had no personal reason to lose it and go on a killing spree (Manson, Dahmer, I don't thini I've Ted Bundy, but throw him in there too) is counter productive. No one oppressed, imprisoned or threatened them. Turner was a slave and even with a "good" master and being a "happy" slave. He was still controlled by a master and was a slave. An example to compare Turner's actions to, although a stretch, is Patty Hurst: kidnapped and took on the actions/attitudes of her captors.

 

[diane]

Not even remotely.

The slaves had a real cause. It was not something in their heads, it wasn't dreamed up.

If we look at the history of slave insurrections we can see a pattern of behavior. Granted it was an ugly behavior, but their actions were in response to how the perceived the slave system.

The slaves had a real cause but it's not so sure about Turner. Turner and Manson were both severely disturbed and I can't say there's such a thing as 'good' crazy and 'bad' crazy. The actions of both resulted in some severely dead people.

 

[Freddy]

The slaves had a real cause but it's not so sure about Turner. Turner and Manson were both severely disturbed and I can't say there's such a thing as 'good' crazy and 'bad' crazy. The actions of both resulted in some severely dead people.

The only line Turner crossed was killing children. The slave had a fundamental human right to stop slave owners' from oppressing the Black race in the evil of American chattel slavery. Turner did not murder slave owners, rather he killed the enemy in a revolt against chattel slavery.

 

[diane]

The only line Turner crossed was killing children. The slave had a fundamental human right to stop slave owners' from oppressing the Black race in the evil of American chattel slavery. Turner did not murder slave owners, rather he killed the enemy in a revolt against chattel slavery.

I can understand why the revolt happened - and there were quite a few revolts. It's just unfortunate that Turner was not mentally fit to conduct a more effective uprising. Although, I doubt anybody could have with circumstances as they were. Sometimes things get to a point where a person has to fight back even if there isn't a hope of success.

 

[gem]

I can understand why the revolt happened - and there were quite a few revolts. It's just unfortunate that Turner was not mentally fit to conduct a more effective uprising. Although, I doubt anybody could have with circumstances as they were. Sometimes things get to a point where a person has to fight back even if there isn't a hope of success.

Despite what one may think of his mental fitness the fact of the matter is he lead the most successful slave insurrection in the history of the slaveholding south. Thus we have to give him some credit.

 

[CMWinkler]

Despite what one may think of his mental fitness the fact of the matter is he lead the most successful slave insurrection in the history of the slaveholding south. Thus we have to give him some credit.

That was a success?

 

[gem]

That was a success?

I think it was as successful an insurrection as any group of slaves ever had the dream of pulling off in the slaveholding south.

they covered a huge amount of mileage in their short but bloody revolt which sent terror through the slave states.

 

[gem]

That was a success?

what's the big deal if slaves revolted against chattel slavery?

 

[Ellsworth avenger]

Despite what one may think of his mental fitness the fact of the matter is he lead the most successful slave insurrection in the history of the slaveholding south. Thus we have to give him some credit.

Why the most successful tag,the 1811 German Bank revolt was larger, just as well publicized and only two white planters were killed. The Southern Oligarchy still took just as much note of the fact.

 

[patbold]

what's the big deal if slaves revolted against chattel slavery?

So what's the big deal when the prisoners at Attica rose up and rebelled against those that held them captive? I mean they didn't want to be locked up and if they killed a couple of guards so what? They were being oppressed they were justified. In fact by your standards we should honor their struggle.

 

[gem]

Why the most successful tag,the 1811 German Bank revolt was larger, just as well publicized and only two white planters were killed. The Southern Oligarchy still took just as much note of the fact.

what do you make of the slave revolts in Haiti?

 

[JerseyBart]

So what's the big deal when the prisoners at Attica rose up and rebelled against those that held them captive? I mean they didn't want to be locked up and if they killed a couple of guards so what? They were being oppressed they were justified. In fact by your standards we should honor their struggle.

Slaves did not commit an illegal act to be sent to prison. Prisoners in Attica did. Slave getting tired of being enslaved is totally understandable. Prisoners, in most cases, put themselves in prison and have no business complaining or revolting, in most cases and not understandable unless the prison conditions or guard and warden behavior are deplorable.

 

[gem]

Slaves did not commit an illegal act to be sent to prison. Prisoners in Attica did. Slave getting tired of being enslaved is totally understandable. Prisoners, in most cases, put themselves in prison and have no business complaining or revolting, in most cases and not understandable unless the prison conditions or guard and warden behavior are deplorable.

yeah, but people here would tell you that they were legally imprisoned based on property laws so that makes everything ok.