Ebenezer creek

[cash]

exactly my point.Every one blames Forrest for Fort Pillow. So why is Sherman not blamed for Ebenezer creek? Because he was "the good guy' ?

Because the people doing the killing were not under his command. It's ridiculous to try to equate the two.

 

[PartywithArty]

Because the people doing the killing were not under his command. It's ridiculous to try to equate the two.

no,but he left the victems for certain death and capture.

 

[PartywithArty]

Sherman's men didn't kill anyone, so Sherman has no blame.

shermans med cut the ropes stranding the slaves...Causing their deaths.. He is to blame

 

[cash]

refugees? They wanted to stay on the farms, Sherman convinced them to come with him.They marched with the Federal army,making them affiliated with the army

Sherman didn't convince them of anything. You really need to read more about this.

 

[PartywithArty]

Forrest was at Fort Pillow, and the men doing the killing were under his command. Sherman was not at Ebenezer Creek, and the men doing the killing were not under his command.

Sherman wasnt there? Check this out.. From wikipiedia "The Tragedy of Ebenezer Creek happened on December 9, 1864. General Sherman was already towards the end of his March to the Sea, and was only twenty miles from his final destination of Savannah, Georgia. Slaves followed Sherman's army throughout his march from Atlanta despite the fact that Sherman's army could not support a large following. One of the reasons for this following was the exchange of food for slaves for their servitude with the Union Army, which included cooking and manual labor. Due to the increasing scarcity of food, Sherman urged the freed men to stay behind. Many freed slaves turned around. However, on this particular day, an estimated 670 freed men, women and children were on the march with Sherman's army and were stranded."

 

[cash]

there were more slaves ca

ptured than killed... Half of them drowned due to Davis's doings

They drowned trying to escape confederate butchery of unarmed civilians.

 

[cash]

they were voulunteers. They worked as pioneers for Shermans march, they were used to benifit Sherman,and when he realized they were costing too much (they had to eat) Sherman grew tired of them..

You really don't know that much about this episode. The pioneers crossed over. What were left were the refugees following Sherman's army.

 

[PartywithArty]

Sherman didn't convince them of anything. You really need to read more about this.

yes,the slaves were persuaded to come by Sherman...Many its you that needs to read more..

 

[PartywithArty]

They drowned trying to escape confederate butchery of unarmed civilians.

they swam to keep up with the soldiers who promised them protection

 

[PartywithArty]

You really don't know that much about this episode. The pioneers crossed over. What were left were the refugees following Sherman's army.

wich included the pioneers,wich were the slaves...

 

[diane]

Davis was under Slocum, I think.

 

[cash]

Question, how much time elasped between the bridge being pulled up and the arrival of Wheeler?

Very little.

Look at Col Kerr's account:
As the XIV Corps prepared to cross Ebenezer Creek, Davis ordered that the refugees be held back, ostensibly 'for their own safety' because Wheeler's horsemen would contest the advance. 'On the pretense that there was likely to be fighting in front, the negroes were told not to go upon the pontoon bridge until all the troops and wagons were over,' explained Colonel Charles D. Kerr of the 126th Illinois Cavalry, which was at the rear of the XIV Corps.
'A guard was detailed to enforce the order, ' Kerr recalled. 'But, patient and docile as the negroes always were, the guard was really unnecessary.'
Though what happened once Davis's troops had all crossed remains in dispute, it seems fairly certain that Davis had the pontoon bridge dismantled immediately, leaving the refugees stranded on the creek's far bank. Kerr wrote that as soon as the Federals reached their destination, 'orders were given to the engineers to take up the pontoons and not let a negro cross.'
'The order was obeyed to the letter,' he continued. 'I sat upon my horse then and witnessed a scene the like of which I pray my eyes may never see again.'
How many women, children, and older men were stranded cannot be determined precisely, but 5,000 is a conservative estimate. 'The great number of refugees that followed us…could be counted almost by the tens of thousands,' Captain Hopkins of New Jersey guessed. Major General Oliver O. Howard, commander of the right wing of Sherman's army (which included Davis's corps), recalled seeing 'throngs of escaping slaves' of all types, 'from the baby in arms to the old negro hobbling painfully along the line of march; negroes of all sizes, in all sorts of patched costumes, with carts and broken-down horses and mules to match.' Because the able-bodied refugees were up front working in the pioneer corps, most of those stranded would have been women, children, and old men.
What happened next strongly suggests that Davis did not have the refugees' best interest in mind when he delayed their crossing of the creek, to say nothing of his apparently having ordered that the bridge promptly be dismantled. Davis's unabashed support of slavery definitely does not help his case, though Sherman insisted his brigadier bore no 'hostility to the negro.'

Painting by Dave Russell
Kerr saw Wheeler's cavalry 'closely pressing' the refugees from the rear. Unarmed and helpless, the former slaves 'raised their hands and implored from the corps commander the protection they had been promised,' Kerr wrote. '…[but] the prayer was in vain and, with cries of anguish and despair, men, women and children rushed by hundreds into the turbid stream and many were drowned before our eyes.'
Then there were the refugees who stood their ground. 'From what we learned afterwards of those who remained upon the land,' Kerr continued, 'their fate at the hands of Wheeler's troops was scarcely to be preferred.' The refugees not shot or slashed to death were most likely returned to their masters and slavery.
Kerr's descriptions of the atrocity apparently met widespread skepticism, and he was forced to defend his integrity. 'I speak of what I saw with my own eyes, not those of another,' he asserted, 'and no writer who was not upon the ground can gloss the matter over for me.' Still, he left it to another officer, Major James A. Connolly of Illinois, to blow the whistle on Davis. 'I wrote out a rough draft of a letter today relative to General Davis' treatment of the negroes at Ebenezer Creek,' Connolly wrote two weeks after the incident. 'I want the matter to get before the Military Committee of the Senate. It may give them some light in regard to the propriety of confirming him as Brevet Major General. I am not certain yet who I had better send it to.'

 

[cash]

they were voulunteers. They worked as pioneers for Shermans march, they were used to benifit Sherman,and when he realized they were costing too much (they had to eat) Sherman grew tired of them..

Stop making things up.

 

[PartywithArty]

Stop making things up.

really? Is that your only comeback? And sir,i have a horrible and scarry imagination...I dont make things up..

 

[PartywithArty]

excerpt from wikipiedia (speaking about Jefferson C.Davis) "However, it was his actions during the Ebenezer Creek passing and his racist attitude towards freed slaves, that causes his legacy to be clouded in continued controversy. As Sherman's army proceeded on the March to the Sea toward Savannah, Georgia, on December 9, 1864, Davis ordered a pontoon bridge removed before the African-American refugees following his corps could cross the creek. Several hundred were captured by the Confederate cavalry or drowned in the creek, attempting to escape.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_C._Davis#cite_note-2

 

[cash]

i think there was enough time to let the slaves cross over. If what John Steele posted was true, " Wheelers men wernt even a speed bump compaired to Shermans men" So why didnt they allow the slaves to cross,them defeat Wheelers men?

You're making things up again. Col Kerr's account shows the confederates were on the scene as soon as the bridges were pulled up because he was still on his horse in the creek.

 

[PartywithArty]

excerpt from wikipiedia (speaking about Jefferson C.Davis) "However, it was his actions during the Ebenezer Creek passing and his racist attitude towards freed slaves, that causes his legacy to be clouded in continued controversy. As Sherman's army proceeded on the March to the Sea toward Savannah, Georgia, on December 9, 1864, Davis ordered a pontoon bridge removed before the African-American refugees following his corps could cross the creek. Several hundred were captured by the Confederate cavalry or drowned in the creek, attempting to escape.

several hundred were captured or drowned.... No mention od Wheelers men killing anyone.

 

[cash]

unarmed,yes, refugees, no. They had a home on the plantations. They were pressured into following Shermans men with a promise to be protected. The slaves worked as pioneers for Shermans men. That means they were part of the march., They helped the union,they were affliliated with Shermans march...They were NOT refugees.

You're making things up again. Stop telling falsehoods. They were refugees.

 

[PartywithArty]

You're making things up again. Col Kerr's account shows the confederates were on the scene as soon as the bridges were pulled up because he was still on his horse in the creek.

exactly,and Johan Steele thinks Wheelers men were not even a speed bump for Shermans troops,so why didnt they allow the slaves to cross and stand up and fight like real men? You trying to change the point.. Shermans men used the slaves as a speed bump to slow down Wheeler.

 

[cash]

no,but he left the victems for certain death and capture.

So then your position is that confederate soldiers were bloodthirsty savages who routinely murdered unarmed black civilians?