What Did he Mean

[WinterLeia]

As anybody who watched the film Gettysburg knows, General Hancock was famously wounded in the battle and refused to be taken from the field until the outcome was decided. The bullet evidently hit the pommel of his saddle and carried some of the debris into the wound with it, including a large nail. Although it would be several months of pain and a near death experience before a doctor finally figured out how to remove the bullet, Hancock fished the nail out himself while laying on the field wounded. One account I recently read said that he misidentified where the nail had come from, saying something to the effect that: "They must be desperate if they're shooting stuff like that at us." So, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like he thought the Confederates were shooting nails at him instead of bullets. And I don't really understand why he would think that.

 

[OpnCoronet]

As anybody who watched the film Gettysburg knows, General Hancock was famously wounded in the battle and refused to be taken from the field until the outcome was decided. The bullet evidently hit the pommel of his saddle and carried some of the debris into the wound with it, including a large nail. Although it would be several months of pain and a near death experience before a doctor finally figured out how to remove the bullet, Hancock fished the nail out himself while laying on the field wounded. One account I recently read said that he misidentified where the nail had come from, saying something to the effect that: "They must be desperate if they're shooting stuff like that at us." So, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like he thought the Confederates were shooting nails at him instead of bullets. And I don't really understand why he would think that.

If he said it, I would think he was being facetious, making light of the situation.

 

[Rebforever]

My Mom along with her brothers and sisters followed along behind freshly plowed ground picking up cut nails and other junk at battle of Piedmont.

She made the comment the nails were used in cannons.

 

[gary]

When ammunition runs short, then anything that can be stuffed down the muzzle loader cannon can be fired. Would a nail fired from a smoothbore carry one mile's distance? I'm of the opinion it's possible, but unlikely. Concur with OpnCoronet.

 

[rpkennedy]

If he said it, I would think he was being facetious, making light of the situation.

Agreed. He wasn't making a serious statement.

Ryan

 

[OpnCoronet]

I think the nail came from the shattered pommel of Hancock's saddle.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I think the nail came from the shattered pommel of Hancock's saddle.

Speaking as a horse person with a very early saddle and having studied these saddles, it would depend on how long the nail was.

If we are talking a 2" nail, it didn't come from the saddle. What kind of nail ARE we talking about?

Most saddle trees, even back then, were joined together by glue and fit very tightly with joints and then rawhide over them to shrink to fit. Nails in saddle trees to join them together is extremely dangerous and that's not how saddles are put together.

The little pommel plates might be tacked on but those are small brads - surely they can go into someone if force is behind it. Is that what we are talking about?

I'm definitely no artillery expert but I can't see how a small tack or brad, stuffed into a cannon can be shot a mile.

 

[wuzreb]

As anybody who watched the film Gettysburg knows, General Hancock was famously wounded in the battle and refused to be taken from the field until the outcome was decided. The bullet evidently hit the pommel of his saddle and carried some of the debris into the wound with it, including a large nail. Although it would be several months of pain and a near death experience before a doctor finally figured out how to remove the bullet, Hancock fished the nail out himself while laying on the field wounded. One account I recently read said that he misidentified where the nail had come from, saying something to the effect that: "They must be desperate if they're shooting stuff like that at us." So, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like he thought the Confederates were shooting nails at him instead of bullets. And I don't really understand why he would think that.

I would think it was just a joke or a smart alec remark. Saddles don't really have nails. They may have brads or tacks in a couple spots, which, even if not long, would definitely not be something you want jammed into your body at velocity.

But I would take it as just a little bit of gallows humor on his part. If somebody does load a cannon with scrap iron, it's only going to be useful at near point blank range. Aerodynamics of random projectiles like that will be abysmal.

I would chalk it up to Soldier humor!

 

[OpnCoronet]

Speaking as a horse person with a very early saddle and having studied these saddles, it would depend on how long the nail was.

If we are talking a 2" nail, it didn't come from the saddle. What kind of nail ARE we talking about?

Most saddle trees, even back then, were joined together by glue and fit very tightly with joints and then rawhide over them to shrink to fit. Nails in saddle trees to join them together is extremely dangerous and that's not how saddles are put together.

The little pommel plates might be tacked on but those are small brads - surely they can go into someone if force is behind it. Is that what we are talking about?

I'm definitely no artillery expert but I can't see how a small tack or brad, stuffed into a cannon can be shot a mile.

Speaking as a horse person with a very early saddle and having studied these saddles, it would depend on how long the nail was.

If we are talking a 2" nail, it didn't come from the saddle. What kind of nail ARE we talking about?

Most saddle trees, even back then, were joined together by glue and fit very tightly with joints and then rawhide over them to shrink to fit. Nails in saddle trees to join them together is extremely dangerous and that's not how saddles are put together.

The little pommel plates might be tacked on but those are small brads - surely they can go into someone if force is behind it. Is that what we are talking about?

I'm definitely no artillery expert but I can't see how a small tack or brad, stuffed into a cannon can be shot a mile.

Wo can say for sure at this late date. If I want to guess, I would think the most obvious answer would be an in the field repair on the saddle, where a nail or nails of some kind was substituted for a quick repair.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

Wo can say for sure at this late date. If I want to guess, I would think the most obvious answer would be an in the field repair on the saddle, where a nail or nails of some kind was substituted for a quick repair.

If the tree was broken, no amount of nails is going to put it back together so that it could acceptably hold together under the stress of riding. Anything is possible but I've never seen a repair with a nail on the field with harness or saddle. I'm trying to imagine what this was or what happened. When things break with harnesses, saddles or bridles "out in the field" and I used to do endurance riding - 50 miles or less a day or over a couple of days, things are lashed together with spare leather thongs, or using a leather punch or a rivet or ropes. I don't think the technology has changed much in a few hundred years. I even had a bit snap on me in extremely cold weather once. My horse was fine. I just put the leather rein on his nose band and we continued on.

Nails and horses just don't go together. One of the big nopes of life.

 

[rpkennedy]

Speaking as a horse person with a very early saddle and having studied these saddles, it would depend on how long the nail was.

If we are talking a 2" nail, it didn't come from the saddle. What kind of nail ARE we talking about?

Most saddle trees, even back then, were joined together by glue and fit very tightly with joints and then rawhide over them to shrink to fit. Nails in saddle trees to join them together is extremely dangerous and that's not how saddles are put together.

The little pommel plates might be tacked on but those are small brads - surely they can go into someone if force is behind it. Is that what we are talking about?

I'm definitely no artillery expert but I can't see how a small tack or brad, stuffed into a cannon can be shot a mile.

I've always thought of it as being some kind of saddle tack rather than a long nail. But I am by no means a saddle expert.

Ryan

 

[wuzreb]

Wo can say for sure at this late date. If I want to guess, I would think the most obvious answer would be an in the field repair on the saddle, where a nail or nails of some kind was substituted for a quick repair.

Possible maybe. But I don't think it would be anything but a tack. Most repairs would involve a needle and thread.

It also depend on the type of saddle he was ridng. Some would have more padding and leather work, others would be more sparing, along the lines of a McClellan saddle. Unless there is record of what saddle General Hancock rode, we won't know.

If something did come loose that could be tacked into the wood of the tree, then it would be more like a brad or a carpet track. Anything longer would be, as our lady New Hampshire friend notes, dangerous to the horse.

Fun to speculate, though! And I don't doubt whatsoever there was a piece of hardware injected at high speed into the person of our good general.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I looked up how the pommel shields were attached. I wanted to get the wording correct.

• • Integrated Pins: The stamped brass shields featured small wire pins or prongs soldered or cast onto their reverse side.
  • Driving and Peening: Saddlers placed the pins through pre-drilled holes in the leather or rawhide saddle cover and hammered them securely into the wood of the pommel. [1, 2]

Function of the Shield

• • Size and Arsenal Marking: The shield was stamped with numbers or text indicating the seat size (e.g., 11.5, 12, or numbers 1 through 4) and occasionally the manufacturing arsenal or government inspector's initials. [1, 2]
  • Coat Strap Anchor: Many pommel shields included an open slot or mortise cutout, allowing troopers to thread a leather coat strap through the ornament to anchor a bedroll, overcoat, or poncho. [1, 2]
  
  This doesn't take away from the fact that getting one of these brads or pins into a "sensitive area" would really hurt! But I would be really afraid of infection and I'm more surprised that didn't happen! These brads, especially if they are brass, usually carry a tiny bit of green with them and then maybe a tiny bit of leather/wood which is organic, which passes through his clothes - any number of ways to get infected.
  
  

 

[The Ninth Ohio]

It would probably be helpful to see how the original source worded it. It definitely sounds like something either misidentified, misinterpreted, or just plain made up.

 

[OpnCoronet]

If the tree was broken, no amount of nails is going to put it back together so that it could acceptably hold together under the stress of riding. Anything is possible but I've never seen a repair with a nail on the field with harness or saddle. I'm trying to imagine what this was or what happened. When things break with harnesses, saddles or bridles "out in the field" and I used to do endurance riding - 50 miles or less a day or over a couple of days, things are lashed together with spare leather thongs, or using a leather punch or a rivet or ropes. I don't think the technology has changed much in a few hundred years. I even had a bit snap on me in extremely cold weather once. My horse was fine. I just put the leather rein on his nose band and we continued on.

Nails and horses just don't go together. One of the big nopes of life.

I will have to bow to your superior knowledge of horsemanship and equipment. It was only my guess. even if I still consider it the most logical and reasonable.

 

[OpnCoronet]

Possible maybe. But I don't think it would be anything but a tack. Most repairs would involve a needle and thread.

It also depend on the type of saddle he was ridng. Some would have more padding and leather work, others would be more sparing, along the lines of a McClellan saddle. Unless there is record of what saddle General Hancock rode, we won't know.

If something did come loose that could be tacked into the wood of the tree, then it would be more like a brad or a carpet track. Anything longer would be, as our lady New Hampshire friend notes, dangerous to the horse.

Fun to speculate, though! And I don't doubt whatsoever there was a piece of hardware injected at high speed into the person of our good general.

Now that you mention it, there has been speculation that the wound was from a splinter instead of a nail. That might make more sense. You might not get all of a splinter out, like you could a single piece of metal.

 

[wuzreb]

Now that you mention it, there has been speculation that the wound was from a splinter instead of a nail. That might make more sense. You might not get all of a splinter out, like you could a single piece of metal.

That could happen too! Any of the munitions used could knock a chunk out of the wooden tree of a saddle. Along with any tacks or brads used.

I guess it would depend if surgeons actually recovered the object and conclusively identified it.

 

[wuzreb]

I looked up how the pommel shields were attached. I wanted to get the wording correct.

• • Integrated Pins: The stamped brass shields featured small wire pins or prongs soldered or cast onto their reverse side.
  • Driving and Peening: Saddlers placed the pins through pre-drilled holes in the leather or rawhide saddle cover and hammered them securely into the wood of the pommel. [1, 2]

Function of the Shield

• • Size and Arsenal Marking: The shield was stamped with numbers or text indicating the seat size (e.g., 11.5, 12, or numbers 1 through 4) and occasionally the manufacturing arsenal or government inspector's initials. [1, 2]
  • Coat Strap Anchor: Many pommel shields included an open slot or mortise cutout, allowing troopers to thread a leather coat strap through the ornament to anchor a bedroll, overcoat, or poncho. [1, 2]
  
  This doesn't take away from the fact that getting one of these brads or pins into a "sensitive area" would really hurt! But I would be really afraid of infection and I'm more surprised that didn't happen! These brads, especially if they are brass, usually carry a tiny bit of green with them and then maybe a tiny bit of leather/wood which is organic, which passes through his clothes - any number of ways to get infected.
  

That would do it! If the saddle had one of those shields and it was blasted loose, the fastenings could have definitely been carried into a wound.

 

[wuzreb]

I looked up how the pommel shields were attached. I wanted to get the wording correct.

• • Integrated Pins: The stamped brass shields featured small wire pins or prongs soldered or cast onto their reverse side.
  • Driving and Peening: Saddlers placed the pins through pre-drilled holes in the leather or rawhide saddle cover and hammered them securely into the wood of the pommel. [1, 2]

Function of the Shield

• • Size and Arsenal Marking: The shield was stamped with numbers or text indicating the seat size (e.g., 11.5, 12, or numbers 1 through 4) and occasionally the manufacturing arsenal or government inspector's initials. [1, 2]
  • Coat Strap Anchor: Many pommel shields included an open slot or mortise cutout, allowing troopers to thread a leather coat strap through the ornament to anchor a bedroll, overcoat, or poncho. [1, 2]
  
  This doesn't take away from the fact that getting one of these brads or pins into a "sensitive area" would really hurt! But I would be really afraid of infection and I'm more surprised that didn't happen! These brads, especially if they are brass, usually carry a tiny bit of green with them and then maybe a tiny bit of leather/wood which is organic, which passes through his clothes - any number of ways to get infected.
  

A quick Google search came up with a whole collection of those saddle shields. Definitely a projectile knocking a piece like this off his saddle could have carried one of the tacks or brads into the wound.

And a really good question about infection!

 

[Pollaco]

As anybody who watched the film Gettysburg knows, General Hancock was famously wounded in the battle and refused to be taken from the field until the outcome was decided. The bullet evidently hit the pommel of his saddle and carried some of the debris into the wound with it, including a large nail. Although it would be several months of pain and a near death experience before a doctor finally figured out how to remove the bullet, Hancock fished the nail out himself while laying on the field wounded. One account I recently read said that he misidentified where the nail had come from, saying something to the effect that: "They must be desperate if they're shooting stuff like that at us." So, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like he thought the Confederates were shooting nails at him instead of bullets. And I don't really understand why he would think that.

The impression I got years ago when I read that story and quote was that Hancock may actually have believed that the Confederates were using nails.