Forrest, Nathan Bedford

[larry_cockerham]

I have not seen the original -- only seen it quoted many times -- but I've always figured Forrest must have written this dispatch himself.

if it's fake, I'd like to know.

My response is mostly from the context and the wording. I just doesn't 'sound' like Bedford Forrest from the many quotes I've seen from a variety of sources. I agree with footghost's post recently, Forrest simply had better English. Most of his words were short and direct to the point, sometimes a tad profane. The one that UnionBlue posted, for instance, is more typical of his speech pattern.

 

[bama46]

"Boys, if ya see somthin blue, shoot it!"
-NBF

 

[larry_cockerham]

"Men, we have surrendered. We have made our last fight. I came here tonight to meet with the Federal General who will go with me tomorrow to Gainesville, AL, to be paroled and to lay down our arms. Men, you have been good soldiers; a man who has been a good soldier can be a good citizen. I shall go back to my home upon the Mississippi River, there to begin life anew, and to you good old Confederates, I want to say that the latchstring of Bedford Forrest will always be on the outside of the door." - NBF

 

[RobertP]

I shall go back to my home upon the Mississippi River, there to begin life anew, and to you good old Confederates, I want to say that the latchstring of Bedford Forrest will always be on the outside of the door." - NBF

Larry, where was NBF's home? I understand it was at Green Grove Plantation in Sunflower Co., Miss.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Larry, where was NBF's home? I understand it was at Green Grove Plantation in Sunflower Co., Miss.

Great question, for which there are probably many answers. I'm not familiar with this name, but suspect it might be his plantation in DeSoto County, MS?
He also had a large plantation on the Arkansas side of the river. By the time of the war I suspect he lived near his 'business' on Adam St. in downtown Memphis. Later I think he rented and or owned President's Island and at his death he lived with one of his brothers (need to look that one up). What can you tell me about this plantation?

 

[larry_cockerham]

Looks to me as if Sunflower County is a tad too far south for ol Bedford. Having said that, I don't know the limits of his holdings so as you probably know it ain't that far from Memphis. One of the sites I just found lists famous residents from there (it wouldn't surprise me if Forrest is not considered politically correct today) but the only two I recognized were B.B. King and Archie Manning, both obviously alive today. What are your thoughts?

Looking at Jack Hurst's bio of Forrest, the general spent some time at Bailey Springs, Alabama during his illness prior to his death. He went from there to the home of his brother Jesse near Memphis where he died. No mention of Green Grove nor Sunflower County in Hurst's index.

 

[RobertP]

Larry, my bad. I looked at the map and Green Grove is/was in Coahoma Co., Miss., on the River a bit closer to Memphis. The reason I ask is this. I had a gg aunt, Ella Richardson of New Orleans. She was the widow of John P. Richardson, who was a son of Col. (I think honorary like Elvis' manager) Ed Richardson, reputedly the wealthiest man in the South after the war. I believe elder Richardson was originally from Chattanooga and made most of his money by using post-war prison labor on bought up plantations. Also owned a railroad. You can google him and get more info if interested.

Anyway, my aunt had a surveyor map all of her plantations around the turn of the century (she went broke in the 30's), and I have the folio. Very detailed color maps. About 15 years ago I got a call from a guy in Memphis tracking the Richardson line and asked if he could get a copy of the Green Grove map, saying it was originally NBF's plantation. He sent me an old photo, again late 1800's to turn of century of the place, I'm not sure where it is but am going to try to find it.

Try checking your source for Coahoma Co. and see if NBF turns up.

Robert

 

[larry_cockerham]

There seems to be an interesting challenge here trying to figure out where Forrest's plantation was located. Maybe we can get some help from the scholars in our midst. In the meantime, I'll work on it from my angle. This may be as good a time as any to learn a bit more about NBF.

 

[larry_cockerham]

I believe I'm beginning to pick up the scent! This is from a county webpage:

FORREST'S PLANTATION
Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest owned a 1900 acre plantation here, 1858-1866. After the end of the Civil War, Forrest rented some of his land to several Federal officers, whom he befriended.
Location:

On east side of State Hwy 1, 4 miles south on intersection with State Hwy 322

 

[larry_cockerham]

Got it!

I looked at both Google Maps and Mapquest and what I'm seeing matches the info on the county historical marker. Green Grove is a little community just inland from what is shown as Sunflower Landing. Just east of that is a site that matches the description from the marker. This would be close to the community of Hillhouse, Mississippi. I'm starting to believe. Yes, this is in the center of Coahoma County. Do a map search for Clarksdale and go west on highway 322 then south on MS 1.

 

[RobertP]

That's it, Larry. The old survey map shows the place includes Sunflower Landing but it also calculates the acreage at 9,500; 4,200 cleared and 5,300 in woods. It was a big piece of property. I'd be interested to know when Richardson bought it and if from NBF. I'll see if I can find the guy's name, in Memphis, who told me the story some years ago.

Also, from the old map, Sunflower Landing is on the main channel of the River. On the Google map, the River has moved and the Landing is on an oxbow lake named Desoto Lake.

Robert

 

[larry_cockerham]

That's it, Larry. The old survey map shows the place includes Sunflower Landing but it also calculates the acreage at 9,500; 4,200 cleared and 5,300 in woods. It was a big piece of property. I'd be interested to know when Richardson bought it and if from NBF. I'll see if I can find the guy's name, in Memphis, who told me the story some years ago.

Also, from the old map, Sunflower Landing is on the main channel of the River. On the Google map, the River has moved and the Landing is on an oxbow lake named Desoto Lake.

Robert

The Coahoma county clerks' office should be able to supply a copy of the deed? N. B. Forrest should be a recognizable name to them. He could have bought the property in the name of one of his companies, however.

 

[blueshawk1]

Here's a few I'm surprissed have not been posted yet;

"Never stand and take a charge... charge them too."

"War means fighting, and fighting means killing."

This next quote I've seen on other sites, but seems useless without what led up to it, so I'm including the "intro";
He said something about killing a Yankee for each of his horses that they shot. In the last days of the war, Forrest had killed 30 of the enemy and had 30 horses shot from under him. In a brief but savage conflict, a Yankee soldier "saw glory for himself" with an opportunity to kill the famous Confederate General... Forrest tried to dissuade him, but he was determined, and Forrest killed the fellow. Making 31 Yankees personally killed, and 30 horses lost...
Forrest remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."

And my favorite;
"No **** man kills me and lives."

 

[larry_cockerham]

Your kill total is a little high. In close combat it was more like 8 or 9. I'll have to look it up, cause you'll probably attempt to make me prove it. He only lost 29 horses. No. 30 hauled him back to Memphis.
'

 

[blueshawk1]

No, you don't have to look it up, I copied and pasted that from another site without looking up the numbers myself, I was more interested in having an explanation for his quote.
There was more to it at the beginning that I missed;
"During the war, someone noticed, and told Forrest, that he had killed 19 of the enemy in hand-to-hand combat, and had 19 horses shot from under him...."
Guess I should have checked. I believe the 19 number is more accurate, but now I'm going to have to go look it up too.

 

[Elennsar]

Your kill total is a little high. In close combat it was more like 8 or 9. I'll have to look it up, cause you'll probably attempt to make me prove it. He only lost 29 horses. No. 30 hauled him back to Memphis.
'

8 or 9 in hand to hand, 20 or so with pistols?

Just making sure I understand here.

 

[blueshawk1]

Wikipedia had this;
"Historians have evaluated contemporary records to conclude that Forrest may have killed more than thirty-three enemy soldiers with saber, pistol and shotgun."
I'm going to look it up in my books too.

 

[K Hale]

What would be typical numbers?

 

[blueshawk1]

I don't know what would be typical, many of the soldiers living at the time probably wouldn't know themselves if they were in enough battles, in line and firing.

But I'm frustrated now. I can't readily find the info in either of the books I have about Forrest. Thought I'd be able to find it quick and easy in "The Library of Congress Civil War desk Reference", but no......

 

[larry_cockerham]

What would be typical numbers?

Forrest wasn't typical, the reason being that most men exposed to the close combat he experienced didn't survive the war. I suspect hustle, skill, and a bunch of Divine providence were factors.